this post was submitted on 26 Aug 2023
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As a disabled person, I face ableism and ableist language every day. Some people use ableist language without even knowing that it is ableist. I thought it would be good for folks to take a look at the attached BBC article and expand their perspectives a bit.

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[–] [email protected] 51 points 1 year ago (20 children)

But the fact is, discussions about the negative effect of a word such as “dumb” – a term originally denoting a deaf person who did not use speech, but which now functions as slang for something brutish, uninteresting or of low intelligence

Speaking of facts

dumb (adj.)

Old English dumb, of persons, "mute, silent, refraining from speaking or unable to speak," from Proto-Germanic *dumbaz "dumb, dull," which is perhaps from PIE *dheubh- "confusion, stupefaction, dizziness,"

Now, as for actual discussion to be had, unfortunately our language is entirely coded in slights towards different groups of people. In calling someone "a sinister villain who's a part of a cabal", I've called them a left (handed) farmer who is Jewish.

At some point we do need to accept that these negative words, which are at their fundamentals, slights to certain groups of people, have taken on a new meaning, and that their misuse as slights against those people only really applies contextually. I do think that terms like "stupid" and "idiot" have achieved that level of shift.

Feel free to disagree with me of course, I'm not here to tell you you or your experience is wrong, and I'm more than happy to have an actual discussion on this. ❤️

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

I agree with you. In fact I had no idea dumb used to mean “a deaf person”. This word has a new meaning. This is obviously besides the fact that the word dumb is demeaning in today’s definition, so there’s that.

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[–] NocturnalMorning 23 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Didn't someone really waste time writing an article about statements like "falling on deaf ears" being hurtful? There saved everyone a click.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Why is it hard for you to believe? If someone is telling you that the language you’re using is harmful, is your reaction really to say, basically, that you don’t care and you’re going to continue using it?

[–] NocturnalMorning 23 points 1 year ago (6 children)

If you're offended by the phrase falling on deaf ears, which is very much just an expression, then you need to go outside more. Nobody is trying to offend deaf people with that phrase.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If nobody is trying to be offensive, and deaf people (one of whom wrote the linked article) are saying that using “deaf” in this way is offensive, and you continue to use it because you don’t care… you’re being offensive. Is it really so hard to change the language you use?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Intent is everything and if someone is clearly not using a word with the intent to offend you, you being offended is a YOU problem, not a them problem.

And before you go say shit like able people can't know how bad it feels.

1, I'm not "abled".
2. I've had people call me these words meaning to offend and hurt me. THAT actually does hurt. These words being used without any intention to hurt or offend anyone, doesn't matter to me at all.

And sometimes, using those words to offend is perfectly appropriate to express what you want to convey.

Like how many Americans have absolutely retarded levels of overblown reactions with a word like cunt.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Intent is actually not everything. Legally speaking, if I run over a person with a car and they die, I can’t get away with it by saying, “well, I didn’t intend to kill them, so there shouldn’t be a consequence”. The impact of that person’s death is greater. It’s not murder, but it’s still manslaughter.

Ableist language is the same: it still causes harm, but obviously not harm to the body.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Legally speaking, if you didn’t intend to kill them it actually does change the consequences.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You're being deliberately obtuse and wilfully ignorant if that's what you took from the article.
And not that you care, but it isn't about offence

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They're trolls from Hexbear. They like to label us as ableist and bigots because it makes them feel superior.

[–] NocturnalMorning 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I have no idea what hexbear even is. I don't disagree with everything in the article, just think saying phrases like falling in deaf ears, or a dumb decision, is way extreme on the scale of this is problematic language.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

A bunch of Hexbear concern trolls cosplaying as social justice warriors.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (22 children)

That's exactly the mentality they have.

Any thought that goes contrary to them being perfect turns them into petulant brats that allow them to justify having a hissy fit against the left.

[–] NocturnalMorning 6 points 1 year ago (18 children)

Dude, I'm about as left leaning as it gets. The mental illness comments mentioned in the article, sure, that's kind of problematic. But statements that are literally just expressions that have been used for probably half a century or more like "falling on deaf ears". Gimme a break. Find something actually a problem to focus on, like the climate crisis, or the Assault on trans rights in the U.S.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I’m about as left leaning as it gets.

not proudly flaunting ableism and refusing to listen to people with the actual lived experience, the way you are, you're not.

Find something actually a problem to focus on

in other words: fuck disabled people

[–] NocturnalMorning 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Yeah, definitely didn't say 'fuck disabled people'. This is literally a made up problem.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Is using racist language a “made-up problem”? If not, how is racist language different from ableist language?

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

People who are affected are trying to tell you it's not a made up problem. It is your ego and aversion to criticism and personal development that is telling you otherwise.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I agree with the use of disabilities like blindness and deafness as metaphors for something negative is a hurtful practice.

On the other hand, for words that have a very archaic meaning to refer to someone's condition (that subsequently is replaced with a different definition in common usage), I think it is best if people let go of such old definitions. People should not allow themselves to consider such usage as a slight upon them, unless such phrase was used specifically as a slur against that person.

And that goes for any kind of word. For example, if I use the terms master/slave in a discussion about computer hardware, it's clear I'm not talking about any enslaved population. To make a fuss about that, to me, is people making things their problem and quite silly.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

BBC, giving a lesson in respect and language? (chuckles queerly)

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't feel that I can describe the... pride of being unique to people who haven't felt it. It feels so natural that of course a non-disabled person would want to maximize their fitness and freedom and essentially not have the same concerns and certainly not have a community over an innate quality of themselves.

Asking people to remove these phrases is asking them to be mindful of their communication, asking them to be considerate and empathetic. And it's so easy to slip back in, I was raised on these phrases.

But I will tell you the journey is rewarding. It's opened me up to friendship with people who would write me off if I did use this language, people who wouldn't share their perspective on life if I hadn't put the effort in. That discomfort with talking to disabled people that I felt as a teen? That's gone. I see mentally and physically disabled people as human, with all the same ability to show me or teach me something as anyone else. It feels great, like a weight off of my shoulders.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Being mindful about language also forces us to be more critical of what we’re saying. Using an insult or slur is easy. Needing to avoid it means that we need to use our minds to engage with why we don’t like something, and that can be legitimately enlightening.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Yeah. I've seen so much discourse over use of the R-slur. To some, it was obvious long ago. But few of us are so gifted with that foresight, and I stopped using it... last year!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Trying hard to remove "crazy" from my vocabulary, but I hear it so fucking often it's turning out to be really hard. But I find it's a pretty lazy word to use, anyway.

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