this post was submitted on 07 Feb 2025

27 points (93.5% liked)

Electric Vehicles

650 readers

150 users here now

Electric Vehicles are a key part of our tomorrow and how we get there. If we can get all the fossil fuel vehicles off our roads, out of our seas and out of our skies, we'll have a much better environment. This community is where we discuss the various different vehicles and news stories regarding electric transportation.

Related communities:

founded 8 months ago

MODERATORS

[email protected]

Ford Says Large Electric Trucks And SUVs Have 'Unresolvable' Problems (insideevs.com)

submitted 3 days ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

22 comments fedilink hide all child comments

top 22 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] billwashere 2 points 1 day ago

I want an electric maverick.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 days ago

I suppose it's settled then, no more large trucks!

[–] [email protected] 19 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Small EVs you say? Now there's an idea.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago

It's nice that their incentives finally line up with something I want. Now if only building surveillance into new cars was somehow unprofitable.

[–] reddig33 26 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Strange how these “unsolvable” problems haven’t stopped Ford’s competitors.

[–] Lag 4 points 3 days ago (2 children)

They didn't solve any problems.

[–] Duamerthrax 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Edison Motors did.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I'm following along with them via DeBoss Garage, but technically they haven't solved it either. They're still working on prototypes for passenger trucks and haven't brought anything to market yet.

The idea is fantastic, and I actually considered investing after his latest video before seeing the requirements, but it also comes with many issues like how the F you're going to do complete drivetrain swaps on your truck without having decades of fabrication skills. They've mentioned having dedicated shops available to do conversions but labor prices are the real killer here. I know there are lots of people out there capable of doing it but it's hard to reach any volume doing it that way.

[–] Duamerthrax 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I think a lot of the fab issues are solved by it being a pure electric axles and the engine just being for maintaining the battery charge. You don't have a drive shaft that requires certain alignment from front to back. It takes skill, but not decades worth. Honestly, I think the biggest headache would just be the dashboard work.

One of the reasons I have more faith in Edison then I do other start up is is that they're the Engineers, Mechanics, and End User. Too many products today are made by people who will never use the product or have to fix the product. The margins for errors on the system are going to be way bigger and they're Right to Repair stance means that you should be able to modify their systems to be pure EV if you want. Only advertising their hybrid systems is just to keep marketing and supply chain issues simple.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago

There's a lot more than swapping in the E-axles. The engine will need to be swapped out for a small Cummins engine with the generator bolted on the back and the battery packs will need to be fabbed in place as well along with all the high voltage wiring and what not. It's certainly not an insurmountable job but it will definitely be out of reach for most people to do at home without having had a decent amount of experience.

Just to be clear, I'm extremely excited about their project, both the light-duty truck conversions and the heavy-duty EV trucks, and agree with what you're saying about the company, so don't take this as criticism of Edison or their work.

[+] reddig33 -6 points 3 days ago (3 children)

You sure about that? The Cybertruck, ugly as it is, is a king size vehicle with plenty of range. There’s also the Rivian truck. Plenty of size and range. Hummer — huge, currently gets 315 miles on a full charge. Dodge RAM full size EV, will go 619 miles. Will be interesting to see what Scout ships.

[–] Lag 10 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Yeah, they added more weight with more batteries but they didn't solve the problem.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

But were these problems ever solved for non EVs? I mean the bigger and less aerodynamic the car, the more energy it takes to move it. That's simple physics no matter what technology you're using. That's why IMHO SUVs and trucks are a pretty bad choice for an everyday vehicle.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Yes, they're easily solved with a larger fuel tank that can take you further before refilling. The physics of it is that gasoline and diesel have more energy density than lithium (or other current compounds) batteries.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

But how is that an unresolveable problem?

Energy density of batteries is getting higher while prices are shrinking year by year. You can of course question if makes sense to keep throwing more and more batteries at a car with the size of a yacht instead of building a more efficient vehicle. But it's not unresolveable.

The unresolveable part from my perspective is the underlying physics: more weight, big tires (at slow speeds) and poor aerodynamics (at higher speeds) increase consumption. And that problem was there all the time.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago

It's 'unreasolvable' in the sense that nothing currently exists to make an EV truck match the range of an ICE truck while they're presumably dumping lots of cash at the problem currently. Whether or not batteries are cheaper and more energy dense years from now, it doesn't help them sell more 2025 model year trucks. This isn't 'unresolvable' in the sense that it can never be solved just not something that can be solved now.

[–] jqubed 7 points 3 days ago

From the article:

If you want a decent electric pickup truck from the likes of Tesla or General Motors, be prepared to drain your bank account. The non-work-truck version of the 2025 Chevy Silverado EV starts at around $70,000 before destinations and fees. The Tesla Cybertruck starts at $79,990. The GMC Sierra EV starts at $92,000. They also have massive battery packs, as big as 212 kWh on the GMC Hummer EV, for example, and deliver terrible real-world efficiency.

Consequently, the sales of electric pickups didn’t look great in 2024. Sure, the Cybertruck was the best-seller among these EVs. However, the truck was once rumored to have a million-plus reservations, and Tesla was preparing a production capacity of over 250,000 units a year. Its sales fell far short at 38,965 units, according to Cox Automotive. Plus, the hype is already cooling off. Sales of Ford's F-150 Lightning grew year-over-year but paled in comparison to gas-powered pickups. The company has had to cut production multiple times to keep it in line with demand.

“Retail customers have shown that they will not pay any premium for these large EVs, making them a really tough business case,” Farley said.

It’s not that they can’t be built, but not at prices most people can afford. And even then people can’t easily use those trucks for things like towing a fifth-wheel camper; they won’t be getting 400 miles range while hauling a 4 ton trailer behind the truck.

Of course, saying these problems can’t be solved is a cop out. Maybe they can’t be solved now with current technologies, but we’re still very early in exploring what electric powertrains can do. Look how far we’ve come in the last ten years, and imagine what could happen in the next ten!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 days ago

Escalade IQ also looks amazing, is a gigantic suv and has a 460 mile range.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 days ago

It looks like ford has unbuyable problems for heavy duty customers.

[–] Maalus 0 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Hydrogen is looking better and better for those needs. My city runs a fleet of hydrogen busses and they've been a great investment so far. They are outscaling the other busses, including electric.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I wish fuel cells were cheaper. I looked into it once and it was over a thousand for even a low watt unit. and that's not counting the fuel or the tank. it wouldn't be hard to hot swap a fuel cell into my ebike but a battery is just cheaper

[–] Maalus 1 points 1 day ago

More people adopt it will result in it being cheaper