How do your ethics apply to non-food items such as shoes and bags? : plantbased

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago (2 children)

We don't buy new animal products, we still own some items from pre-vegan days. It would be wasteful, and harm the planet, to toss them out and have another manufactured product take their place.

Where possible we have given away or donated. But I still have a pair of Doc Matens that I bought at a thrift store a long time ago.

I also have a pair of synthetic leather dress shoes, but the veneer shine layer of the "leather" pealed off in random places after a few uses, exposing the fuzzy substrate. So much for innovation. Lol.

As a side note: we struggled to find pillows that matched comfort of feathers so we endured some terrible memory foam and poly filled pillows till we stumbled on Beednova Premium Hotel Down Alternative Pillows (on Amazon.) They have been amazing. They will flatten out for back or front sleeping, or you can squish/fluff them for head support when side sleeping.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago

Thanks for sharing :)

I’m allergic to down so I guess I’m lucky I’m the opposite.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

you could donate your used stuff, slightly reduces overall manufacturing…. (by nearly nothing).
also, my main problem with that, is wearing leather and such still helps keep it normalized, subconsciously, of course….

i have doc martens i found in a dumpster and i just haven’t found anything that compares to leather when it comes to rough-use footwear… so yes im a hypocrite, im just saying its a consideration….

i had some reinforced canvas boots one and they sucked.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Responding to your comment seriously.*

I hear and understand your point about normalizing and subconsciously not liking it (if that’s what you meant) and can somewhat agree on surface level, but I think getting rid of all non-plant based items is a little unnecessary. That would be a monumental/unreasonable task for most. Do I donate my animal derived meds, leather watch from my great uncle, car seats, and shoes? Do I need to go check all my furniture?

You’re not a hypocrite! You can certainly hold an opinion and make exceptions ;)

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

i feel you… but by subconsciously i mean, if you’re somewhere and half the people have leather shoes, yours will seem normal. if everyone around doesn’t, then it’ll feel differently… mostly subconsciously….
it’s sorta like a vote saying “leather is normal”….

[–] reddig33 5 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I try to avoid buying shoes made of leather, or pillows stuffed with feathers, etc. I own one leather belt that I inherited, but I hardly ever wear it.

Most tennis shoes today are a knitted “sock” glued to a plastic foam sole. Dress shoes made of man-made materials can be found at places like Target. So it’s gotten easier to buy shoes.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 days ago

Thanks for sharing! Wish there was a way to maintain our own shoes.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

This is something I’ve reflected upon in the last few months due to being attacked for it by someone close.

I am an animist, so my approach to this is very much affected by my beliefs.

I keep my clothes and shoes made with materials of animal origin. I do not throw or give them away, as that would be a disrespect to the life that was taken, and an uncertainty about what consideration the next person would have for that very life.

I myself mend and take good care of my things, making sure I extend their life for as long as I can. It is my responsibility to make sure no more is taken from nature than it is absolutely necessary.

Now, if I must buy something, I go second hand first. And I don’t stay away from leather or wool or other animal products due to the above: if I take one with me, I will care for it as well as I can for as long as possible, ensuring the life taken will be honoured and not simply turn into soil-poisoning waste.

It is when buying new is unavoidable that I hit a wall. I’ve had very bad experiences with plastic shoes. I walk a lot, and they ones I’ve tried have made me develop some nasty foot smell I’d rather avoid for the rest of my life… Other times, the shoes simply broke so fast I had to buy new shoes after barely a year. Both my budget and options are limited, so I am stuck on what to do when the inevitable happens and I need new boots.

Anyway, thank you for asking this! It has been useful to write it down – and not sure why you got downvoted…

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Thanks for writing out your thoughts! Very interesting response.

May I ask an animist in what way?

I really appreciate your approach. I’ve had similar experiences with shoes. I would really prefer something both plantbased and repairable but I think that doesn’t exist… :/

Yeah I don’t get why people come to Lemmy and downvote especially in our new community. Luckily the site and the apps mostly allow turning off votes which I do.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 22 hours ago

Of course! Different animists have different views, as it is not a dogmatic belief.

I myself believe not only sentient creatures possesses some kind of spiritual essence, but also plants, natural phenomena, and even some rocks and places.

My instinct is to respect nature not only because I am part of it, but also because I am interacting with other creatures and they have as much a right to life as I do.

Therefore, a product should never be treated as scrap or useless remains, but honoured and valued until that object cannot be used anymore.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Especially one's where an animal is not specifically killed for that product.

[–] over_clox 2 points 2 days ago (2 children)

You pose an interesting, yet potentially controversial question. I'm like waste not, want not. People are gonna eat meat, whether you think that's ethical or not. So, why waste the hides?

I grew up in a town filled with hunters, though I wasn't exactly much of a hunter myself. Though I did go out with them a couple times around age 13, and we killed, cooked and ate a couple rabbits.

What my elders taught me, is if you hunt, don't do it for sport, you better eat what you kill. And if at all possible, don't let anything go to waste.

And that's about when I was taught to preserve animal hide with borax and dry curing.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

Personally I feel like hunting is a lot better than just buying meat at a grocery store or whatever. If you hunt in a way that respects the death of the animal and doesn't waste anything then you at least are much more connected to what consuming meat actually entails. A big reason I became vegan in the first place was because I fished a few times growing up, and came to the conclusion that I didn't like it because it felt cruel. Eventually I realized that if I wasn't even willing to fish because I felt bad about it, why is consuming animal products any more acceptable to me?

I still could never bring myself to hunt, and I do 100% take issue with hunting for sport where it doesn't respect the life of the animal. But if you hunt just what you need, and use everything you can from the animal, then at least you feel the gravity that the act of taking a life should cause you to feel imo.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I think that's a rational way of approaching it, I guess it's hard to understand the ethics of it for big brands and how their leather is supplied for instance. I assume most cows are killed primarily for their meat but I am unsure.

Following your life of thought I see nothing wrong with freeganism. I feel plantbased caused me to be almost religiously anti-animal products early on but I agree with not wanting to waste.

[–] over_clox 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Indeed, our local hunters weren't a big brand set to breeding animals for slaughter.

May I ask you a question in return?

Back when I was only 7, my parents owned a horse named Sissy. She was a free range horse that had a whole ~40 acres of land to roam around and graze on.

She was fully grown and as sweet and as gentle as could be. Anyone could ride her even without a saddle or bridle, at a slow gentle trot. She really was the best horse ever!

But one day, bad weather came through. Apparently Sissy decided to try to take shelter under a pine tree (she did have proper shelter in the middle of the property though, but she didn't go there).

Anyways, very sadly, lightning struck the tree she was under, killing her and the tree she was under. ☹️😭💀

Their procedure at the time, if a horse died, was to chain them to the tractor and haul them to what they called "Bone Hill"...

I was only 7 at the time, so I was sad, but had no thoughts or say so on anything, so off to Bone Hill she went.

Now I'm 42 years old, and in hindsight, I still wonder to this day, would it have been reasonably ethical to instead call up a number of hunter neighbors to go ahead and cut her up and stock everyone's freezers?

Not like she died of disease ya know, nor by human hands. Looking back, seems like wasted meat to me.

I'm sorry to bring up a sad story like that, but it's bothered me ever since, what really would have been the better idea, rather than hauling her carcass to Bone Hill just to rot..?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I’m on my phone so I will try to respond best I can.

Thank you for asking me this moral question and sharing this personal story.

First of all you were 7 so you hold zero responsibility to this.

Secondly, I’m not sure putting a beloved animal to rest versus eating it has a moral choice. If they died by natural causes I think both are fine. Would we ask the same question about a house pet like a cat though? I personally do not think I could bring myself to eat a loved house just because it died. I also grew up with animals and your question hits home. For my pets I have buried them versus put them on the bone hill but I also don’t know how many labor hours would go into burying a horse. I assume that would be a lot.

As someone who thinks not wasting and freeganism is a good choice but not mandatory, I think eating anything unexpired that would otherwise be thrown away or roadkill is morally okay to consume. So I think eating the horse would have been morally okay but I don’t think putting it to rest is wrong in anyway.

I frequently eat vegetarian food left over from my immediately family that they would not eat otherwise but even know I slightly feel weird about consuming most meats even if it will be wasted otherwise.

So I personally think there is nothing for you too feel bad about. I do think it’s a very sad story though. I know how it feels to lose a family pet and I’m sure such a horse with such a good temperament must have lived a good happy life :)

I hope I treated your story with the proper respect needed!

[–] over_clox 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Thank you for your thoughtfulness and understanding.

Honestly I'm shedding tears over it right now, it's been a long time since I even thought of that tragic situation.

And hell no I nor my family would have ever considered eating Mr. Whiskers nor Rover, that really hits way too close to home!

But a horse, killed by lightning? That's had me wondering about the ethics in the back of my mind every now and then ever since.

Anyways, let's not think any more depressing thoughts, I'm gonna pet our adopted dog Brownie, think happy thoughts, and hope everyone tries their best to have a good new year.

Edit: Brownie...

https://lemmy.world/post/22326822

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago (2 children)

I can imagine how you feel. It is that the horse sought shelter and got hurt that makes you feel sad the most?

What do you think is/was the right thing to do? If something like that happened today what would you do.

Aw! Very cute :) thanks for sharing

[–] over_clox 2 points 2 days ago

Back then, there weren't much of any strict laws, and the Bone Hill I mentioned, yeah, over the previous two decades the occasional dead horse or cow would be hauled up there, just to rot, no burial or anything. They basically let the vultures and worms do the work from there..

Bone Hill was well away from anyone's home, including ours, so nobody in the neighborhood seemed to care. It was just 'normal' life for me back then at times. Today, I wouldn't have a damn clue what to do with a dead horse, I guess call animal control for advice..?

I haven't lived there in like 30 years, now I stay in an apartment and we're lucky just to be able to have adopted Brownie.

He's a really good boy, especially to be an adopted stray that someone dropped off at our city park last March or April or so. He's extremely well behaved, and perfectly house trained!

I wish I could ask Brownie what his history is, what his original name was, etc...

Regardless, we're glad to have him with us, sad that someone dumped him off. He's got a forever home here!

[–] over_clox 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Quick question..

What breed do you think Brownie is? Understandable if you're not sure. The vet listed him as a Dachshund, but I believe he's actually a Doxle..

https://dogtime.com/dog-breeds/doxle

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago

I really don’t know dog breeds but from briefly looking at photos I think you may be right. Based on the torso and the nose.

Plantbased