Self-Owns

Let's get this out of the way before I explain my thoughts about your arguments. Sorry about the length

Im not a fan of Biden. I've actually hated every presidential candidate and despise the "lesser of two evils" system we've built for ourselves. I generally don't vote at all. I've voted only twice specifically because during only those two elections I felt "lesser of two evils" was important enough to matter.

I could praise Bidens accomplishments but I could also list trumps Accomplishments. I'm not at all brainwashed by the media and dont live in a bubble of people who always agree with me. My political opinion is I hate both of them. I hate most politicians. I've never seen a single politician in my entire 40 years who I felt was worth voting for, and I've seen one who was worth voting against.

I think it's important to add to that I was a trump Supefan before he ran for president. I have an unopened case of trump vodka from when it first came out. Loved trump. Respected him because I'm also a salesman by trade. When he ran for president I saw right thru his salesman bullshit.

My point is don't bother trash talking Biden. I'm fully aware Biden sucks and all politicians suck. I'm also aware Trump is different, he isn't a politician!!! Unfortunately I also know Trump better than the fools that follow him. He's a salesman, a damn good one. He's sold half of America a shitty used car with a crap engine and a fresh coat of paint.

That's why I voted against him even tho I never bothered to vote before. I can see the exact salesman strategies he's using. He has no idea how to run a country, he's just making profit. He's a salesman.

That's where I stand on that so don't bother trashing Biden. I know Biden sucks.

Anyway on to your arguments.

This is how the system works though. Cops can...

We already discussed that. Al Capone CAN bribe. That IS how the SYSTEM worked. It doesn't change the legality. Cops are not supposed to do that. We just don't stop them. The solution is to stop them not expand their reach to upper classes in a misguided attempt at fairness. I don't want to be kicked in the balls. Getting more people kicked in the balls doesn't solve my problem.

Al Capone was taken down on tax evasion, not murder and booze/drug running.

Yep. And Trump and other billionaires want to continue to gut the IRS. The IRS has actually admitted they no longer have the funding to investigate rich people and their tax evasion because the can't afford the long court battles with expensive lawyers. They admitted they don't even try because the funding is gone.

This gives the "both sides" people another fact to throw out there (regardless of justification, Biden still pardoned ...

You poor poor soul ... The "both sides" people don't give a shit. When Obama wanted to approve a supreme Court justice the Republicans demanded he wait a year until the new election. They said it wasn't fair for him to approve one in his last year. Obama waited, he won, they still wouldn't approve it. When trump got elected he filled the seat and bragged that Obama was lazy for not filling it. Fast forward to the last few months of Trump's presidency. A new position in the supreme Court opened. Trump filled it. Democrats pointed out " you said last time it wasn't fair to do that".... The Republicans laughed and did it anyway.

That's the issue with the whole " we got to play fair or it gives them an excuse!!!" Argument. They don't need and an excuse. They aren't going to play fair regardless. By demanding democrats follow some unwritten rules out of tradition, out of principle, to maintain some illusion of high ground... It's just giving the cheaters more of an advantage. The Republicans do not give a crap about tradition or rules. They are cheating every step of the way and breaking every law they can. Because they can.

So maybe fight that instead of wagging your finger and saying essentially 'stooping to their level' nonsense. This is what the game is now. Play it this way or give up. That's life. If your only problem is one side is sinking to the level of the other, but you aren't doing or saying anything about the other... You arent being fair or honest to the situation. If you're idea is letting the other side cheat and the opposition follow every rule and tradition you aren't really interested in fairness. Only handicapping one side in favor of the other

I understand your point by in have some disagreements that you've actually touched on in you're comment. I think you also know the issues I'm going to point out.

This is how the system works though. Cops can-

Yes, I understand you're point however... Remember the gangster Al Capone? He sold whiskey during prohibition, bribes cops, ran a lucrative empire... He COULD do that. He DID do that. Was it legal? To bring up my imaginary neighbor Bob again. If we were in the 1920s and Bob got killed by a booze runner and I told you "that's not okay with me" would you're response be "this is how the system works"?

No. What I said about Bidens son is valid. Yes the system often works that way for alot of people. I'm not okay with that. That's exactly my point. That's why I don't mind the pardon for Biden. I understand alot of people don't get pardoned for this obvious miscarriage of justice, I also understand he's getting better treatment because of his father... But to offer another comparison: "Bidens son get enough to eat because he's rich! Some people starve!" I'd reply to that "yes it's unfair alot of people starve because they are poor. That doesn't mean I want Bidens son to starve because of some kind of misguided attempt to make things fair. I don't want anyone to starve. I don't want anyone targeted illegally by police. It sucks only rich people get out of that situation. That doesn't mean I want more rich peoples kids harassed by police any more than I want more rich peoples kids to starve. That's not the avenue I think will solve the problem.

One more comparison to illustrate my point.

Imagine we lived in a world where everyone who made less than 100k a year got kicked in the balls every morning before work. That would be incredibly unfair and cruel. I wouldnt march the streets with a sign saying "kick the rich people in the balls everyday too!!!!" That's not the solution I want. I guess it would technically be more fair, but my goal isn't really fairness, I don't want to get kicked in the balls everyday because that sucks. I want that to stop not expand to more demographics. That doesn't help me at all. It just hurts more people. That's not the solution I want.

Edit: sorry I said that was my comparison but I've got one more.

Rosa Parks didnt refuse to leave her seat on that bus because she wanted white people to also be forced to sit at the back of the bus. She wanted black people to be able to sit in the front. That's what I'm talking about.

Obviously I want more rich people to go to jail for the crimes they committed and I want the system to be more fair. However my problem isn't that cops arent being SHITTY ENOUGH to rich people. My problem is they are not doing what we pay them to do and they have no real oversight or repercussions when they are shitty. I know it's common for cops to be shitty to disenfranchised people.

I've seen my privilege as a tall white redneck male. I've actually tested and pushed the boundaries of that privilege just to see how far I could actually take it. I'd love to tell you some stories sometime that would blow your mind. Things that would've got a black man killed but I didn't even get a ticket. I know the problems, I'm vocal about them. The solution isn't pushing cops to be equally crappy to more people. The solution is to make them less crappy.

Thank you for your compliment. I also appreciate your rebuttable because if I only ever talk with people who completely agree with me ... Well I'd see a very foolish and arrogant man in every mirror.

It's been a long work day for me but I'll read the article you sent when I have a spare moment . It would be a waste to read it right now with my tired mind full of thoughts about work problems.

I should warn you though when I do read it and if I feel it isn't accurate or fair I will be coming back to explain that to you. Hopefully you enjoy that as much as I do.

Honestly I feel the biggest problem, the thing causing such division and anger, is how many people have adopted the foolish "my side is entirely right and yours entirely wrong. I will not listen I will only shout!" Mentality. I've always been very proud of myself for not subscribing to that mentality. My opinions obviously feel right to me but more importantly I don't close the door and lock it.

Forgive me for bringing up religion but I feel it's a good comparison. If I truly believe in Jesus then I shouldn't be afraid to speak to someone who does not. To be afraid of challenges to my beliefs means I either a) don't really have faith in my beliefs or b) don't have faith in myself.

If the only way I can hold a belief or opinion is by hiding myself behind a wall with my fingers in my ears... Its more of a toddler's safety blanket than a true thought or idea.

Sorry forgive my rambling. Long day lol.

As I addressed in the edit of my original comment: antagonizing people who would otherwise be on your side is a terrible way to gain support. It not only encourages the status quo that has kept people treating politics as team sports, but it also makes the rest of us look bad.

You know I’m the moderator here, right? 😂

Wouldn't be the first time I've argued with a moderator over politics.