this post was submitted on 02 Dec 2024
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Before anyone gets the wrong idea, no, I'm not talking about the movie/show The Watchmen. I'm referring to the ancient philosophical question "quis custodiet ipsos custodes" or "who watches the watchmen". Go read up on that elsewhere.

For those of you who don't know and need a summary here, it's a question often posed in reference to the fact that the person or people in charge of making sure the rules are honored have nothing preventing them from disobeying the rules. There's never anything preventing the person guarding your treasure from stealing some of the treasure, for example.

What's the best remedy to this that you can think of?

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Spread your treasure over multiple watchman, each holding only a part. Keep a public reputation system for each watchman. Make the loss of reputation more costly than the total of treasure they could steal.

[–] InfiniteFlow 9 points 2 weeks ago

More than one group of custodians, ideally with conflicting interests, watching one another? Essentially some system of checks and balances?

[–] A_Union_of_Kobolds 6 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Can you give a link or description how anarchy counts be implement in a easy there is resilient to a subverted centralization of power that does not truly on an active majority?

Because we don't have that, sadly. And I've never seen a concept that takes a silent and passive majority into consideration.

[–] A_Union_of_Kobolds 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Dual-power structures, consensus-based democracy, and federated communes. Between those three are most of your answers.

And obviously we don't have the conditions necessary for anarchism at present, or we'd already be living it.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Yay a rabbit hole! Thanks for the key words :)

[–] A_Union_of_Kobolds 4 points 2 weeks ago

No problem!

Honestly, one of the best introductions to anarchism is The Conquest of Bread by Petr Kropotkin. It's a century old and still very relevant and approachable. You can find it for free on The Anarchist Library.

[–] captainlezbian 2 points 1 week ago

And one thing to understand about anarchism is that it’s very much a goal oriented philosophy more than most other political philosophies. What that means is that you get a lot of different approaches and concepts from people trying different things to attempt to achieve similar goals. And this often involves practical differences between different situations. Rojava is necessarily going to do things differently from how the maknovists did things and they’re both very different from how some punks who bought some land for a commune in the American Midwest will handle it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Group with most weapons takes all, then infighting begins?

[–] A_Union_of_Kobolds 2 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Tell me you don't know anything about anarchism without saying it

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Found some definition:

the organization of society on the basis of voluntary cooperation, without political institutions or hierarchical government

So, what makes me or anyone else voluntarily cooperate? What happens if I don't?

[–] A_Union_of_Kobolds 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Then you don't get to participate? If you don't want to play along with the commune then don't. Have fun growing all your own food, mending all your own clothes, repairing your own structures, teaching your own kids...

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Yeah, such a system is only possible in theory and can never really work.

[–] A_Union_of_Kobolds 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Such a system has worked fine in plenty of places, you're just conditioned to ignore them.

We're not making shit up, there have been anarchic societies for as long as humans have existed.

[–] Num10ck 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

it has worked until a centralized invader comes along.

[–] A_Union_of_Kobolds 1 points 2 weeks ago

No, usually it was the Soviets turning back on deals they made. If it wasn't for an important ally suddenly stabbing them in the back, the anarchists in Ukraine and Spain likely would've had much more success.

Regardless, the ability to defend the commune is top priority for us, obviously. I'd point to the Kurds in Syria currently as a decent approximation of an anarchic society that's been defending itself every step of the way.

I'd also point to the tribes of Madagascar as described by David Graeber (RIP) in Fragments of an Anarchist Anthropology, certain Taoist cultures, and numerous indigenous societies that worked just fine, thank you.

[–] NewNewAccount 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

What’s your definition of anarchism? How do you see it playing out?

[–] A_Union_of_Kobolds 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

The same as everyone else's - a society without hierarchy.

I see it playing out perfectly fine, just like it has throughout human existence in numerous societies across the globe. But it takes a lot of work to get there.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 weeks ago
[–] BreadOven 3 points 2 weeks ago

Dr. Manhattan, obviously.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 weeks ago

Smoke weed everyday

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 weeks ago

Nakamoto Consensus, the mechanism by which Bitcoin is protected, is the original digital solution to this problem. Several others exist in modern cryptocurrency chains/ledgers.

With regards to protecting digital treasure, I think this fits the bill.

[–] Num10ck 2 points 2 weeks ago

full accounting transparency helps.. according to the blockchain believers.