this post was submitted on 20 Sep 2024
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Element is launching the world’s first communications platform based on the upcoming Matrix 2.0 release. The result is blazing performance which outperforms the mainstream alternatives - across a decentralised system that enables self-hosting and end-to-end encryption - as well as open standard interoperability to revolutionise real time communication between large organisations.

Built on Matrix 2.0, Element X now rivals the performance of centralised consumer messaging apps, empowering organisations to address the shadow IT issues caused by consumer-grade messaging apps in the workplace.

The new Element communications solution consists:

  • Element X, our next-gen app with an array of new features
  • Element Call fully integrated into Element X, for native Matrix-encrypted voice and video
  • Element Server Suite, our backend hosting solution for powerful admin control and Matrix 2.0 performance
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[–] [email protected] 58 points 1 month ago (2 children)

"invisible cryptography" I sure hope this isn't an empty promise. The number one gripe I have with matrix/element is the absolutely horrendous crypto dance they make you do.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 month ago (1 children)

It's probably the number one reason I can't convince friends to move over, I know they would bawk at how it makes them do that on every device

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago

I studied cryptography and I can't figure out how to do the dance right. I thought I did, but one of my contacts says they can't read any message I send them. And I can't message them to figure out why.

We haven't spoken since. Thanks Matrix.

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[–] [email protected] 38 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

I had just uninstalled Element X like two weeks ago because I found it to under perform compared to the normal Element client on Android, in addition to lacking some features. I guess I'll give it another shot.

Update: WOW this thing feels lightning fast compared to just a few weeks ago. This is great. Not sure about feature completeness, but based on speed I think I'll migrate Element > Element X again. Great job to the team!

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

It hans't changed speedwise for me. It has been lightning fast since it's first release

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[–] Scio 15 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Still no Spaces support. Even the short list of rooms I've joined are unmanageable when listed flat with no way to identify which Space a #general belongs to

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

This is dependent on matrix-rust-sdk, when (if) it ends up supporting it, all apps using the SDK will be able to add support for spaces

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago (2 children)

What do you mean by "spaces"?

[–] ByteMe 9 points 1 month ago (1 children)

It's the equivalent of discord servers

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I can't use discord because they require phone numbers from users who use privacy tools.

What does this mean for people who don't use discord?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago

A space is a collection of rooms. So you have a clean list of spaces, then when you click into one of them it shows all the rooms that it contains. Without spaces, every single room is shown in one big list.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 month ago

Spaces have nothing to do with Discord. They're just a way of grouping multiple Matrix rooms together into one "space" like how Discord channels are grouped into one "server."

[–] Scio 8 points 1 month ago

A way to group organize discover and control access to multiple Rooms.

Here's an extra ironic Elements post describing them: https://element.io/blog/spaces-the-next-frontier/

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I don’t like what I see in the iOS app stores privacy section for the app.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Element is able to use features called "Integration Manager" and "Identity Server". When using an Identity Server, you can choose to link name, email, and phone number to your Matrix account. When using an Integration Manager, there's a feature to share your location with others in chat.

As such, Vector discloses that they "collect this information", although (except some diagnostics), this is completely optional.

(I am not associated with Vector, just interested in Matrix)

[–] grimer 16 points 1 month ago (4 children)

Ah interesting ok. So basically even though it CAN link all of that info to you and such doesn't mean that it WILL if you opt out of things. Is that correct?

[–] Neon 9 points 1 month ago

Even better.

It's opt-in instead of opt -out

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Correct, Vector does not receive this information unless you willingly share it with them.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 month ago

The way permissions are listed on mobile operating these days is honestly pretty misleading.

For example, I know some apps that need to request network permission even though they don't need to connect to the internet. Not because they want to do anything shady, but because they legitably have to in order to get certain info.

Not to mention the problem of listing everything an app can do as if it is doing all of those things.

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[–] grimer 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 month ago (1 children)

What do you find WTF about it?

[–] grimer 3 points 1 month ago (3 children)

That’s a lot of data collection.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 month ago

That's the problem with how the app store presents privacy info: without context it's nearly meaningless. "may be collected". It's optional, but that's not show here. The Play store does show that these are all optional.

"Collected" is also a scary word here. Having my location "collected" sounds scary, but what it actually may mean is that I can optionally and explicitly share my location with a contact.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I’m still sad they stopped work on dendrite. P2P level decentralization, with E2EE, would be amazing.

These are still great improvements though. I'm hyped that loading seems to be so much faster.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

They didn't though? Source?

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 month ago (4 children)

Not available on f droid yet it seems

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago

That release is quite out of date. See this issue

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago

Schildi chat has SchildiNext on f-droid

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 month ago

The new release isn't out on F-Droid my friend, last updated 3 months ago as of this comment.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 month ago (8 children)

Screensharing would let so many people move from discord

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[–] irotsoma 9 points 1 month ago

Native OIDC support...something I wish more self hosted apps would prioritize. I shouldn't need to maintain a bunch of user account systems on my own servers.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 month ago

Space support and multi account support and I'll install it. Fluffychat has many features but still laggy.

[–] qaz 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

What's the difference between the normal app and element X? Why create a new app?

EDIT: I installed it, but can't verify for some reason.

EDIT: It works now, and it's very fast compared to the other client. It's a shame spaces aren't supported.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago

Normy here, I think it's a whole different framework which is faster and more reliable I think. Also the normal app technology outdated so maybe it's difficult to add new features to it.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago

Good ol' Rust Rewrite fixing everything.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Has anyone tried the new app?

[–] vikingtons 13 points 1 month ago

I've been using the nightly releases for element X android for some time.

Sliding sync means messages are fetched quite a bit quicker, though it's not yet feature complete relative to regular element android.

I've not yet tested element call on EXA, however, but it's worked very nicely for me via web.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago
[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (4 children)

We should probably stop arguing about Matrix vs XMPP and finally decide what to use or else we'll never move forward.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Which is largely whether or not the eventual consistency model or not is the route to take. Is the resilience for chat worth the explosion of storage & preformance cost of sync/search & maintaining all that data amongst all servers? Or is limited/functional sync without always duplicating the entire history with the occasional out-of-order message & missing old attachments good enough? Is ephemeral chat okay to save resources which in turn makes it more feasible to self-host on lower-end hardware or is it better to trust a couple big servers with massive storage who probably have admins?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

Still waiting for an XMPP client to support threads

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