this post was submitted on 02 Sep 2024

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There's a rule banning gas water heaters in 2027 (www.baaqmd.gov)

submitted 3 months ago by [email protected] to c/bayarea

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Just came across this new rule, via this article: https://www.sfchronicle.com/climate/article/california-electric-19563602.php

2027 is when they ban sale of new replacement gas water heaters.

They talk about a few solutions, like low voltage electric heaters, and load sharing plugs to share a dryer plug among the water heater and a electric dryer. So that could do it for a lot of people.
But I'd guess a surge in panel replacements will happen within the next 2 years.
Especially since new gas furnaces will be banned in 2029.

Also, obligatory Fuck PGE. We have higher rates than most of the rest of the world and it's all the fault of the corrupt PUC and PGE.

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[–] reddig33 11 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Rheem makes a 120v-based series of heat pump water heaters now. They were specifically designed for homes with gas water heaters and not enough 240v outlets. I won’t be surprised if/when other manufacturers follow.

If you have an attached garage, you might consider having it installed there to suck up all the summer heat.

If you’re worried about peak electricity usage, you can put your water heater on a timer so it’s only active during the hours you need it. Some water heaters come with this feature built in. Modern water heaters hold heat well, like a battery. So you won’t lose much heat from the water when the power is cut. Technology Connections did a good video on this subject.

Be sure to check for city, state, and federal rebates when replacing your water heater. They can cut costs significantly.

[–] Jazsta 4 points 3 months ago

Nyle and GE have 120V models too, or at least will have them on the market soon. I've worked on field testing them in California specifically. Transitioning to heat pump water heaters will help cut down on smog too. Good call on checking rebates, there's a ton money available and some incentive finders are out there to help.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Electric water heaters mean you’re all paying peak electric prices because most cities mandate tankless water heaters. You can thank PG&E for bribing the PUC to force everyone onto time of use rate plans.

Only alternative is to be rich enough to own solar panels and batteries for load shifting.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

The amendments only apply to appliances that would be newly installed; they require no change-out of already existing appliances.

Well, at least there's that.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Make sense.

Seriously gas water heaters‽ What century do you guys live in?

[–] seaQueue 8 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

The century where electricity costs us 50-75¢/kWh (headed for $1/kWh by 2028-2030) and gas is significantly less expensive to use for heating.

Deregulation absolutely fucked California's energy markets and the PUC+PG&E are going to keep the deep dicking going as long as humanly possible.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Jesus it’s like $0.17/kWh here

[–] jewbacca117 6 points 3 months ago

Someones gotta pay for the wildfires PG&E caused and it aint gonna be the shareholders!

[–] seaQueue 1 points 3 months ago

It's anywhere between 45¢ and like 90¢? here at peak time of use rates. The rate increases past 25¢/kWh are almost entirely to pay off PG&E's wildfire liability after they committed fraud and used their transmission maintenance budget to pay dividends for 20+y.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Here in Sweden, gas is pretty much obsolete and not a lot of places even have the option of using gas. Afaik only really the old buildings in the big cities has gas.

Furnace heating is pretty rare in Sweden so we generally use electricity. Our grid is also very stable and renewable.

Average electricity prices including fees, taxes and all that was apparently between 0,17 EUR and 0,19 EUR per kWh in December 2023. Don't you guys have geothermal and heat pumps?

[–] seaQueue 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

The majority of our generation here in CA is PV during daylight hours and nat. gas generation plants (plus the odd nuke plant here and there) to cover any shortages. We have some battery storage to convert that PV generation capacity into night time power but not nearly enough. We have very little geothermal or tidal generation here.

Most of the abusive cost of electricity here is PG&E offloading their $20B+ wildfire liability from 2015-2019 onto customers.

Every single home I've lived in since the late 90s has used nat gas for water and central heating. Electric is becoming popular over time but gas is still very common.

[–] lemmefixdat4u 1 points 3 months ago

Don't know what's up with lemmy.world not showing all the comments, so I hope it's not a big deal that I'm not replying to each comment.

The federal government has a tax credit for 30% of the cost of a heat pump water heater or heat pump A/C. These mostly run on 120v, because 1200W of power consumption yields about the equivalent of a 4000W resistive element heater. The drawback is that in a lot of homes, the 120v powering the gas heater is not a separate circuit. In my mom's house it comes off a wall outlet that also power the kitchen. So if she makes coffee when the water heater is operating it pops the circuit breaker.

Most homes with gas appliances would require new wiring to use electric equivalents. Hiring an electrician for that job can easily top $2000. People on fixed incomes will have a rough time making this change. Those in rural areas are particularly impacted because they typically rely on propane or they're off-grid.

Let folks replace what they already have. Updates should only be required when the property changes hands. Otherwise it creates a lot of resentment and often financial hardship. And the legislation is easy to defeat if you live next to the border. Buy your replacement gas appliance in Nevada or Arizona. This kind of legislation is exactly why people are willing to set aside all the negatives of Trump and vote for him.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 3 months ago (3 children)

So what happens when you guys get blackouts every summer?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago (1 children)

California has not had summer blackouts in 20 years since Enron and other Texas energy companies did a criminal conspiracy to idle power plants and drive the price through the roof.

Texas still has summer and winter blackouts.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago

Modern gas water heaters already have electronic ignition systems

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

I used to lose power multiple times a year but now that I moved to CA I think it’s happened once in like 10 years and they had it back on before I woke up. But I have municipal power so I don’t have to put up with PGE’s incompetence.

Also have an electric water heater. Works great so far though the noise was a bit surprising at first. The old one kept having the pilot go out so for me it’s more reliable, and was basically free with rebates. Probably will switch to electric heat soon, that’s the last gas hookup let in my house. Would love to completely sever ties with PGE.