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International Criminal Court chief prosecutor seeks arrest warrants for Israeli PM and Hamas leaders (www.abc.net.au)

submitted 6 months ago by Viking_Hippie to c/upliftingnews

20 comments fedilink hide all child comments

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/12333064

International Criminal Court chief prosecutor seeks arrest warrants for Israeli PM and Hamas leaders

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[–] [email protected] 39 points 6 months ago (3 children)

This is such a smart move: it really cuts the legs out from under the "....bbbbut Hamas are terrorist!!" bad-faith arguments.

[–] Viking_Hippie 23 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Yup!

Also addresses that, regardless of the Israeli apartheid regime's response being immeasurably worse, the leaders of Hamas DID also commit war crimes and violated the human rights of civilians, which you're not allowed to do no matter how much you're oppressed and abused..

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

Considering the leaders of Hamas are flitting around on private jets seeing all their fellow war criminals... I dont think we can say they're particularly oppressed or abused. Theyre just using those that are for their own malicious purposes.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 6 months ago (1 children)

The headline focuses on Israel, but the prosecutor has also called for arrest warrants of the top two Hamas figures.

[–] essteeyou 3 points 6 months ago

They're only separated by the word "and"

[–] CerealKiller01 -3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

If that's the reason behind the arrest warrens for Hamas, doesn't it make the ICC's chief request in bad faith? Like "I really want to issue warrants only for Netanyahu, but I know this will be unfair, so I'll issue warrants for both sides, so I'll seem balanced"?

[–] CarbonatedPastaSauce 9 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Pretty sure the reason for the Hamas warrants is that they ordered their soldiers to gun down civilians en masse.

[–] CerealKiller01 0 points 6 months ago

Right, so it's not "smart", it's just, you know, what he should have done regardless.

Preferably even before asking for warrants against Netanyahu and Galant. That way it won't look like the warrants against Hamas leaders are to justify the warrants against Netanyahu and Galant, like the person I replied to seems to imply.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 6 months ago

Somehow they'll find a way to say it's antisemitic

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago

They sure will get him this time

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I know what you are getting at OP, but I can’t say I find ‘both sides committed atrocities ‘ uplifting, exactly

[–] Viking_Hippie 8 points 6 months ago

Well that parts a given. We all know it. The new and uplifting part is that they might actually see a modicum of justice for said atrocities, even though one of them is America's favorite apartheid regime.

[+] CerealKiller01 -14 points 6 months ago (2 children)

No, this is not uplifting for anyone (except maybe people who hate Netanyahu and/or Israel and don't really care about Palestinians).

Right now there is some humanitarian aid going into Gaza, despite objections from the far-far-right Israeli coalition parties. The excuse Netanyahu used to get their (semi-)cooperation is by saying "Well, this is the bare minimum so Israel won't get hit by sanctions". The warrants, if granted, will create motivation for Netanyahu to give in and reduce humanitarian aid (he cares much more about personal sanctions than sanctions against the country).

Also, Netanyahu will use the warrants and Israel's isolation to strengthen his own position in the government, fortify his position and lower the chances for his government to implode.

[–] CarbonatedPastaSauce 9 points 6 months ago (1 children)

So what? Are you saying we should just let the war crimes slide?

[–] CerealKiller01 -1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

No, what I'm saying is:

a. The immediate goal shouldn't be to punish Netanyahu for war crimes, rather solve (at least improve) the humanitarian crisis in Gaza.

b. Arrest warrants against Netanyahu will not help improve the humanitarian crisis in Gaza, if anything they'll make the situation worse (There are already calls from far-right members of Knesset to stop all humanitarian aid to Gaza as a response).

Therefor, this is uplifting news for anyone who hates Netanyahu/Israel more than they want to help Palestinians.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I hate Netanyahu because he's an asshole who has ensured the people of Palestine will never get the slightest solution to their crisis. I don't hate Israel or it's people, regardless of what anything I may have said on the fediverse in the past (it's REALLY hard not to be absolutely furious that kids are just plain being slaughtered over what was probably some fucking "BuT tHaT wOmAn WaS sHoUlD mY wIfE!!1!!1!" that happened so long ago nobody remembers it, and I am truly sorry for any past comments that could be interpreted as some sort of justification of anti-semetic violence; I do not want harm to come to anyone innocent and am just glad I have not let those poorly-chosen words inform my actions in any way) and I definitely don't hate any jews living outside of Israel because anyone who thinks an expat or second+ generation immigrant has any links to a foreign nation really is dangerously xenophobic.

If I thought there was a better way to help the people caught between these two sides, I'd be saying it. Unfortunately, it seems this issue will likely be solved only if the US decides it has to intervene in some way, which is why I absolutely support charging that asshole with a war crime. I don't like it one bit, but I have to repeat myself: The attempted extermination of the Gaza Strip, despite the sheer irony of it being so, is industrialized genocide or "destruction of humanity" - a.k.a a Holocaust - by the very definition of the word. We truly live in the most vile timeline imaginable.

[–] CerealKiller01 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

To help the people caught in the middle, from both sides, one has to understand the interests of the Israeli government and Hamas. I think the last actions Biden did have the best chance of stopping the war.

Hamas's interests are a full retreat of Israeli forces and keeping as many hostages. They don't really care what happens to the general population. The "political" leaders in Qatar also have an interest of staying there. They are also OK with keeping the war going since as time goes by the public opinion turns more and more against Israel. The latter part can be dealt with by not letting Hamas of the hook for what's going on in Gaza (if you want to say "But no one is saying they're not to blame!" - yes, but most aren't stating clearly the ARE to blame. In practical terms, that's about the same). Also, pressure can be put on Qatar so they can put pressure on the political leadership, as Biden has reportedly done.

The Israeli government is a bit more complex, as it's a coalition with three "legs" - Netanyahu/Likud, that mainly want to stay in power and nothing else (the war is good for them, since they don't have to answer for their part in how it started), the far right that want to take over Gaza (and therefor welcome international sanctions, as it "proves" that the whole world hates Israel and therefore the only solution is to disregard what the world thinks), and the ultra orthodox parties that want to keep certain privileges for their voters.

The international arrest warrants, while not desirable on Netanyahu's part, actually increase his power. He spins them as warrants against "the entire country". And in fact, right after they were issued Likud rose in the polls.

So what can be done regarding the Israeli government? Well, Netanyahu is playing all sides against the middle, telling everyone different things while trying to change the situation, no matter what the situation actually is, as little as possible (since any change can result in him losing power). Biden, by stating the offer currently on the table came from Israel tore the mask from Netanyahu's double speak and makes it harder for him to keep the current situation.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

Thank you, it's always better for people to learn this stuff from someone who knows things they don't and you've certainly made me aware of various things I was not aware of. I just wish there was a better way to handle this, the area shouldn't have to be threatened to get them to follow the Geneva Convention but sadly it seems few with any influence in the region of Gaza even care.

[–] Katana314 4 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Sure, daddy might beat me sometimes. But if you tell the cops to arrest him, he said he’ll get his friend to beat me harder.

[–] CerealKiller01 -1 points 6 months ago

Err... Yes?

I mean, if the cops can't actually come into your city, having them waiting outside the city limits with signs saying "if you'll come out we'll arrest you!" probably isn't the best course of action for you.