this post was submitted on 14 May 2024
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[–] [email protected] 33 points 6 months ago (11 children)

This is the biggest thing IMO, liberals would rather attack leftists than try to work with them. All this does, however, is convince leftists that they have nothing to gain from siding with liberals and instead trying to build outside pressure.

Liberals would rather defend genocide than join leftists in trying to force Biden's hand and gain back leftist voters.

I say this as a Leftist likely voting for Biden: Leftists are going third party because Liberals have been blocking all leftward movement, thus alienating leftists from the electoral process. If you want leftist votes, work with leftists, instead of constantly punching left.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 6 months ago (41 children)

Biden fired the guy who used to run the NLRB, and put in a bunch of actually pro-labor people, who gave lots of material support to all this union activity that coincidentally has been meeting with all sorts of success over the last couple of years.

Biden's corporate tax reforms swung Amazon's taxes from negative $1.2 billion per quarter to positive $1 billion when they took effect at the start of 2023, and they're currently paying $3 billion per quarter, a comfortable amount more than they've ever paid before. Here's this year's proposal of what he plans to do to build on top of that. Raising corporate taxes was most of how he funded stuff like the infrastructure bill.

I literally do not see anyone "punching left" outside of the mainstream media. No one on Lemmy is out here saying "these damn protestors if only they would shut up" or anything like that. I see a bunch of people punching Biden, and then other people saying hey, what you said is actually not accurate; for as criminal as his support for Israel is, he's actually the first pro-working-people president the US has had in many many years.

That's not "punching left," that's refuting the punching that is coming inwards towards the person who is right now the only available alternative to full throated, military-seize-the-voting-machines, shoot-the-protestors, fascism.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago (1 children)

You just punched left, lol. Telling leftists that extremely minor shifts within the context of a far-right system are good enough actually, minimizes the voice of leftists. You aren't going to convince a leftist that Biden is good, for leftists, continuing Capitalism and making no efforts to end it is already enough to not consider a candidate to be good.

If you want to move leftists to your side, it's far more effective to agree with them that Biden has been continuing liberalism and making no tangible leftist movements. Telling leftists that they should actually be celebrating less than the bare minimum further alienates leftists.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (64 children)

good enough actually

Never said that; in fact you'll find me several places saying that moving further than Biden would be a great idea, and pointing out that one of the big problems with Trump is that he will very effectively end some of the methods that currently exist whereby real leftwards progress can be made in this country.

You aren't going to convince a leftist that Biden is good, for leftists, continuing Capitalism and making no efforts to end it is already enough to not consider a candidate to be good.

So we're moving the goal posts so that Biden has to want to end capitalism before you'll support him, even against literal Hitler.

Sure, sounds perfectly sane and productive. Sorry for ever punching left by having a different opinion than that.

If you want to move leftists to your side, it's far more effective to agree with them that Biden has been continuing liberalism and making no tangible leftist movements.

That's a funny way of spelling "I have no way to disagree with your factual rundown of good things Biden has done, so I'm going to demand that you agree with me, and in particular cease citing any objective facts for why you think what you think, as a precondition of 'moving to your side', because facts are punching left."

I mean I could be right or wrong on this or anything else. But I'm not planning on just agreeing with you on everything and ceasing hurting your feelings by arguing otherwise, so that you'll become open to "moving to my side."

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[–] gastationsushi 12 points 6 months ago

American power only rewards those that don't threaten it and punishes those that do.

The left is the last hope America has to reform anything in a positive direction, but sadly liberals would rather abide power than join the left and transform our collapsing system into a force of good.

[–] masquenox 8 points 6 months ago

liberals would rather attack leftists than try to work with them.

That's because liberals know (despite their pretensions otherwise) that leftists threaten their oh-so-precious status quo.

Liberals also know that, when push comes to shove, they are going to need the fascists to protect said oh-so-precious status quo for them - despite their pretensions otherwise.

Nothing liberals do or say is a mystery once you understand that.

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[–] [email protected] 32 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Case in point: this whole damn thread lmao

[–] return2ozma 13 points 6 months ago
[–] disguy_ovahea 31 points 6 months ago (21 children)

When they can’t find anything good to say about their own party, attacking the opposition is the entirety of their argument.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (11 children)

Hi!

Biden tried to forgive half a trillion dollars in student debt, took the biggest action on climate change in history which is estimated to reduce emissions by 40% by 2030 if Trump doesn't undo it, strengthened the NLRB which has been giving legal backing to a lot of these union wins, grew wages at the bottom end of the pay scale even in the face of historic inflation, and a few other things.

It is also relevant that he doesn't want to end democracy in the Unites States, "finish the job" in Gaza, or fire on protestors with live ammunition, like Trump does. But if for some reason you've decided it's not allowed to make the decision on those bases (and I don't know why it wouldn't), there are also good things to say about Biden.

Oh, I mean, my bad. Rail strike worst president ever both sides amirite

[–] disguy_ovahea 15 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Biden rejoined the Paris Climate Agreement, revoked the Keystone Pipeline permit, created a 13 million acre federal petroleum reserve for Alaskan wildlife, greatly increased oil site lease cost, signed $7B in solar subsidies, enacted the Inflation Reduction act to support clean energy, created the CHIPS Act to improve reliance on domestic technology, reenacted Net Neutrality, repealed Title 42, ended the Muslim Ban, signed the Equality Act for LGBTQ+ rights, restored gay rights to beneficiaries, reenacted trans care anti-discrimination law, signed the Respect for Marriage Act, enabled unspecified gender on US Passports, rejoined WHO, rescheduled marijuana, reducing drug costs with the American Rescue Plan Act…

Edit: I misunderstood when I read the second half of your comment. For what it’s worth, I agree about Israel. It’s simply not a comparison since Trump has been clear about his intentions with Palestine and Ukraine.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (3 children)

Wait, I am confused. Are we arguing? I thought Biden was doing great up until Netanyahu started killing Gazans by the thousands. He's been doing weird little half-hearted things like holding up the weapons shipments, but hauling Netanyahu to the ICC would have been a better idea.

But yes, in general, Biden's a huge improvement over the norm in a bunch of ways that for some reason aren't talked about real often, and Trump is the end of the world (for the Palestinians and other Arabs and Hispanics and a whole bunch of other minorities foreign and domestic, in addition to everyone else). I feel like we're on the same page on that, and I didn't realize when I read your first message.

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[–] Phegan 28 points 6 months ago

A fascist best friend is a liberal who would rather punch left.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Aww man but if im not super condescending about how everyone should vote for biden then I won't get to say "I told you so" when trump wins and does the worst shit possible.

Disclaimer im voting for biden shut the fuck up.

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[–] daltotron 7 points 6 months ago

Yessssss, finally meme I agree with, and therefore am required to like. Our funy memes, their horrible propagandist image macros, our nuanced conversationalism, their lunatic screaming, etc.

I dunno guys I think I'm just like an exhausted contrarian maybe. Can I get like, can I get a lemmy where every post is just a link to an interesting blog post, or something? Do I have to construct that lemmy myself, only to watch it totally fail because nobody reads blog posts in the year of our lord 20XX?

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