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Looking to build my first PC in almost 30 years; What should I be on the look out for? (self.selfhosted)
submitted 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) by CosmicTurtle to c/selfhosted
133 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

It looks like !buildapc community isn't super active so I apologize for posting here. Mods, let me know if I should post there instead.

I built my first PC when I was I think 10-11 years old. Built my next PC after that and then sort of moved toward pre-made HP/Dell/etc. My last PC's mobo just gave out and I'm looking to replace the whole thing. I've read over the last few years that prefabs from HP/Dell/etc. have gone to shit and don't really work like they used to. Since I'm looking to expand comfortably, I've been thinking of giving building my own again.

I remember when I was a young lad, that there were two big pain points when putting the rig together: motherboard alignment with the case (I shorted two mobos by having it touch the bare metal of the grounded case; not sure how that happened but it did) and CPU pin alignment so you don't bend any pins when inserting into the socket.

Since it's been several decades since my last build, what are some things I should be aware of? Things I should avoid?

For example, I only recently learned what M.2 SSD are. My desktop has (had) SATA 3.5" drives, only one of which is an SSD.

I'll admit I am a bit overwhelmed by some of my choices. I've spent some time on pcpartpicker and feel very overwhelmed by some of the options. Most of my time is spent in code development (primarily containers and node). I am planning on installing Linux (Ubuntu, most likely) and I am hoping to tinker with some AI models, something I haven't been able to do with my now broken desktop due to it's age. For ML/AI, I know I'll need some sort of GPU, knowing only that NVIDIA cards require closed-source drivers. While I fully support FOSS, I'm not a OSS purist and fully accept that using a closed source drivers for linux may not be avoidable. Happy to take recommendations on GPUs!

Since I also host a myriad of self hosted apps on my desktop, I know I'll need to beef up my RAM (I usually go the max or at least plan for the max).

My main requirements:

  • Intel i7 processor (I've tried i5s and they can't keep up with what I code; I know i9s are the latest hotness but don't think the price is worth it; I've also tried AMD processors before and had terrible luck. I'm willing to try them again but I'd need a GOOD recommendation)
  • At least 3 SATA ports so that I can carry my drives over
  • At least one M.2 port (I cannibalized a laptop I recycled recently and grabbed the 1TB M.2 card)
  • On-board Ethernet/NIC (on-board wifi/bluetooth not required, but won't complain if they have them)
  • Support at least 32 GB of RAM
  • GPU that can support some sort of ML/AI with DisplayPort (preferred)

Nice to haves:

  • MoBo with front USB 3 ports but will accept USB 2 (C vs A doesn't matter)
  • On-board sound (I typically use headphones or bluetooth headset so I don't need anything fancy. I mostly listen to music when I code and occasionally do video calls.)

I threw together this list: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/n6wVRK

It didn't matter to me if it was in stock; just wanted a place to start. Advice is very much appreciated!

EDIT: WOW!! I am shocked and humbled by the great advice I've gotten here. And you've given me a boost in confidence in doing this myself. Thank you all and I'll keep replying as I can.

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[–] phrogpilot73 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

AM5 sockets are now LGA like Intel. AM4 was the last PGA socket, so bent pins on the chip are a thing of the past. Make sure to leave the socket cover in place while installing the CPU. Now, the fear is bending a pin on the MoBo.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I think you mean LGA (Land Grid Array), meaning the pins are on the motherboard. Ball Grid Array (BGA) is used for embedded, non-removable CPUs.

[–] phrogpilot73 1 points 9 months ago

I did. This should teach me not to try and cook dinner and post at the same time. I'm NOT that good at multitasking...

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Linus tech tips recently made huge pc build guide video that you might benefit from watching.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BL4DCEp7blY&pp=ygUbbGludXMgdGVjaCB0aXBzIGJ1aWxkIGd1aWRl

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Asrock's DeskMeet or DeskSlim series could fit your bill in a small form factor.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago

Btw, there are fast and beautiful M.2/NVMe to USB cases, for your SSD.

[–] tabular 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (3 children)

The responsiveness between a hard drive and an SSD is night and day. NVMe is even faster but not noticeable unless you move a hell of a lot of data around. A motherboard having at least 1 M.2 NVMe slot is common, so installing the OS on it is an option. Hard drives have more storage per price, but unless space is significant factor I suggest using SSDs (also quieter than a spinning disk!). More info on storage formats in this video

Recent generations of motherboards use DDR5 RAM, which were very expensive on release. I think the price has come down but I am not up to date this generation. You may be able to save money making a DDR4 system but you'll be stuck on a less supported platform.

AMD had like ~10 years of bad/power hungry processors and Intel stagnated, re-releasing 4-core processors over and over. AMD made a big comeback with their Ryzen series becoming best bang for buck, then even over taking Intel. I think it's pretty even now.

If you don't intend to game or do certain compute workloads then you can avoid buying a GPU. Integrated CPUs have come quite far (still low end compared to a dedicated GPU). Crypto mining, Covid and now AI has made the GPUs market expensive and boring. Nvidia has more higher-end cards, mid range is way more expensive for both and low end sucks ass. On Linux AMD GPUs drivers come with the OS, but Nvidia you have to get their proprietary drivers (Linux gaming has come a long way).

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago

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[–] CosmicTurtle 2 points 9 months ago (6 children)

I was really hoping to cannibalize the 32 GBs of DDR3 RAM but I couldn't find a MoBo that supports it anymore. Then I saw DDR5 is the latest!

I don't really do any gaming. If I wasn't going to tinker with AI, I'd just need a card for dual DisplayPort output. I can support HDMI but...I prefer DP

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago (3 children)

DDR5 has gone down dramatically compared to launch. You can get 64GB with a very fast bus for under 200 dollars now. At launch 32GB would easily set you back 250+. AMD has made a killing with Ryzen. Never mind the new naming convention that Intel came up with to make it even more complicated to choose the right CPU for your use cases, ridiculous. As for Nvidia GPU drivers, at the end of the day, they just work, regardless their proprietary drivers philosophy (which, again, I agree sucks). But if the OP is going to be doing AI development, machine learning and all that cool stuff, he'd be better served by getting a few CUDA TPUs. You can get those anywhere from 25 dollars to less than 100, and they come in all types (USB, PCI, M.2). https://coral.ai/products/#prototyping-products I have 1 USB Coral running the AI on my Frigate dicker for 16 cameras, and my CPU never reaches more than 12% while the TPU itself barely touches 20% utilization. You put 2 of those bad boys together, and the CPU would probably not even move from idle 🤣

[–] CeeBee 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

getting a few CUDA TPUs

https://coral.ai/products/#prototyping-products

Those aren't "CUDA" anything. CUDA is a parallel processing framework by Nvidia and for Nvidia's cards.

Also, those devices are only good for inferencing smaller models for things like object detection. They aren't good for developing AI models (in the sense of training). And they can't run LLMs. Maybe you can run a smaller model under 4B, but those aren't exactly great for accuracy.

At best you could hope for is to run a very small instruct model trained on very specific data (like robotic actions) that doesn't need accuracy in the sense of "knowledge accuracy".

And completely forgot any kind of generative image stuff.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (6 children)

Same reply. And you can add as many TPUs as you want to push it to whatever level you want. At 59 bucks a piece, they'll blow any 4070 out of the water for the same or less cost. But to the OP, you don't have to believe any of us. You're in that field, I'm sure you can find the jnfo on if these would fit your needs or not.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread:

Fewer Letters More Letters
NAS Network-Attached Storage
NVMe Non-Volatile Memory Express interface for mass storage
PCIe Peripheral Component Interconnect Express
PSU Power Supply Unit
RAID Redundant Array of Independent Disks for mass storage
SATA Serial AT Attachment interface for mass storage
SSD Solid State Drive mass storage
ZFS Solaris/Linux filesystem focusing on data integrity

8 acronyms in this thread; the most compressed thread commented on today has 5 acronyms.

[Thread #529 for this sub, first seen 20th Feb 2024, 23:55] [FAQ] [Full list] [Contact] [Source code]

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I went through the comments briefly and didn't see anything about cases. I highly recommend spending some money on a good case with good cable management slots. It may not look important but it will make life so much easier. Fractal cases are good budget friendly ones. I usually prefer large bulky cases (I like ATX), to ensure good ventilation and easiness to assemble things. Having plenty of space to move around helps a lot while cleaning also.

Another thing, you will see a lot of articles about positive pressure or negative pressure fan arrangement and all. TBH, I really don't think that matters a lot. Just regular cleaning with a cheap rocket air blower will do. And more than 4 fans are not really needed. The gain is negligible. But ensure you have a good dedicated fan/water cooling for CPU cooling. I recommend Noctua for air cooling.

Oh regarding backing up your data, make sure you plug in your SSD once in a while, to avoid charge depletion. Nowadays the claim is SSDs have better retention and you don't need to keep it active, but I'm not really sure.

[–] Wilzax 1 points 9 months ago

The thing about case pressure does actually matter a lot for dust management. Positive pressure makes the case build up far less dust because air will only flow into the filtered intake, and will flow out through the outtake as well as any openings or gaps it can find, which prevents dust from flowing into the case except by possibly making past the filter.

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