So a group of men tried to help stop a gang assault on an innocent man and are now facing criminal charges for it? Sounds about right for policing in this country.
THE POLICE PROBLEM
The police problem is that police are policed by the police. Cops are accountable only to other cops, which is no accountability at all.
99.9999% of police brutality, corruption, and misconduct is never investigated, never punished, never makes the news, so it's not on this page.
When cops are caught breaking the law, they're investigated by other cops. Details are kept quiet, the officers' names are withheld from public knowledge, and what info is eventually released is only what police choose to release — often nothing at all.
When police are fired — which is all too rare — they leave with 'law enforcement experience' and can easily find work in another police department nearby. It's called "Wandering Cops."
When police testify under oath, they lie so frequently that cops themselves have a joking term for it: "testilying." Yet it's almost unheard of for police to be punished or prosecuted for perjury.
Cops can and do get away with lawlessness, because cops protect other cops. If they don't, they aren't cops for long.
The legal doctrine of "qualified immunity" renders police officers invulnerable to lawsuits for almost anything they do. In practice, getting past 'qualified immunity' is so unlikely, it makes headlines when it happens.
All this is a path to a police state.
In a free society, police must always be under serious and skeptical public oversight, with non-cops and non-cronies in charge, issuing genuine punishment when warranted.
Police who break the law must be prosecuted like anyone else, promptly fired if guilty, and barred from ever working in law-enforcement again.
That's the solution.
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Our definition of ‘cops’ is broad, and includes prison guards, probation officers, shitty DAs and judges, etc — anyone who has the authority to fuck over people’s lives, with minimal or no oversight.
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RULES
① Real-life decorum is expected. Please don't say things only a child or a jackass would say in person.
② If you're here to support the police, you're trolling. Please exercise your right to remain silent.
③ Saying ~~cops~~ ANYONE should be killed lowers the IQ in any conversation. They're about killing people; we're not.
④ Please don't dox or post calls for harassment, vigilantism, tar & feather attacks, etc.
Please also abide by the instance rules.
It you've been banned but don't know why, check the moderator's log. If you feel you didn't deserve it, hey, I'm new at this and maybe you're right. Send a cordial PM, for a second chance.
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ALLIES
• r/ACAB
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INFO
• A demonstrator's guide to understanding riot munitions
• Cops aren't supposed to be smart
• Killings by law enforcement in Canada
• Killings by law enforcement in the United Kingdom
• Killings by law enforcement in the United States
• Know your rights: Filming the police
• Three words. 70 cases. The tragic history of 'I can’t breathe' (as of 2020)
• Police aren't primarily about helping you or solving crimes.
• Police lie under oath, a lot
• Police spin: An object lesson in Copspeak
• Police unions and arbitrators keep abusive cops on the street
• Shielded from Justice: Police Brutality and Accountability in the United States
• When the police knock on your door
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ORGANIZATIONS
• NAACP
• National Police Accountability Project
• Vera: Ending Mass Incarceration
I hope this becomes a case of something that rhymes with "bury dullification".
Be careful with that. You can just vote not to convict. Talking in front of the jury candidates about nullification can be seen as poisoning the jury pool and can be grounds for a contempt charge. It’s better to speak privately with the judge/court to go over your concerns about the case.
The tough decision would be whether to bring that up ("I won't vote to convict for a law I disagree with") during the juror selection knowing they'll likely dismiss you or risk being stuck in a long trial to be able to use that to help someone targeted by the corrupt system.
I understand.
I hold a scientifically informed position (to the point that I can go into neuroanatomy and evolutionary dynamics - I’m a biologist) that makes me believe quite firmly that free will simply does not exist and that people cannot therefore be morally held culpable for their actions. I would require the people (that is, the prosecution) to prove to my satisfaction that the person under trial can and should be held culpable for their actions, not just that they committed the actions or that they “knew they were wrong.” This is a subject I’ve studied at length and can make numerous citations to back my position - including neurobiologists and neuropsychologists at the top research institutions around the world.
If I were to be put on a jury, I would feel obligated to make my position known to my fellow jurors and would explain at great length why a person with a hypertrophied amygdala and a hypotrophied prefrontal cortex resulting from growing up in poverty in an abusive household and in a violent neighborhood can be fully expected to react violently with a hyper developed fear reaction due to a pre-triggered limbic system with extremely diminished executive control. That person is just set up to fail.
And I would require to know that the person should be held culpable. If a man’s daughter were to have been kidnapped, and the kidnappers told him they’d kill her if he didn’t rob a bank, we’d have a situation in which the man would have done the deed, made a plan, knew it was wrong, but still would not be held culpable. I couldn’t see a prosecutor attempting to try that case, and I couldn’t see a conviction happening if they did. That’s how I have to evaluate behaviors in general.
I’m not saying that dangerous members of society shouldn’t be removed - I’m saying it needs to be approached as a medical problem and not one of crime and punishment. As long as “guilt” is a factor and punishment is the answer, I cannot sign off on that.
I would not, however, say that in front of the jury pool. I’d request a private meeting with the judge and attorneys and carefully answer their questions. I recognize that I likely would not be selected for a jury.
You have to differentiate between your responsibilities as a citizen and human versus those more specific ones as a juror. I argue my position with people, I write and work on trying to spread my understanding, but I’m not going to put myself in the position of either coming off like I was trying to deceive the court or tainting the pool illegally. If they ask “if we prove the defendant guilty will you vote to convict?” I could technically say “Yes” knowing that they will not prove the defendant guilty because that’s not a status I think exists - unless we get into a multi week philosophical and biological discussion - but it’s not really what they’re asking and I know that.
On the other hand I would be perfectly confident in clearly and openly stating that I would not send someone to prison for life or to the death penalty, because I am opposed to both of those things independently of my position on free will.
Is telling someone to “disperse” a lawful order? That’s news to me. Standing in public spaces is our legal right and can’t be deemed unlawful until we actually break the law. Then it’s a law enforcement issue as anything else. Otherwise the police could arbitrarily tell anyone to move with no reasonable articulable suspicion that any crime was afoot.
I think they get around it by making the arrest but then releasing them without charge, unless they could add a resisting arrest charge or something. Cop not liking you is an offense punishable by up to 72 hours in jail (and all the fallout that goes along with that).
You can beat the charges, but you can't beat the ride.
with NYPD officials making the rounds on cable news amid a drum beat of tabloid coverage referring to the men as “brutes” and members of a “wolfpack.”
Brutes, eh? Wow. Digging deep in Roget's ass for that one. Oh and where have I heard the epithet "wolfpack" thrown around in relation to NYC police before? Hmmmmmmm
The video is very satisfying to watch