The solution here would be to mandate full symmetry: if you require muliple steps and confirmations to UNsubscribe or cancel, you must have the exact same steps to subscribe too. I think it would fix this problem very quickly
this post was submitted on 07 Jul 2023
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I think one of the worst examples of this assymetry is Microsoft's Xbox Live subscription.
Using your console, you can easily turn it on and activate the subscription with your credit card. Using the very same console, it's literally impossible to cancel - you need to log into a PC.
Kaspersky. Back when the russians started getting weird with things, and kaspersky... got dubious... I canceled my subscription and switched to a different AV. when it was about to expire, they sent a 'we'll automatically renew'. So I tried to log in- my credentials were invalid- I use a PW manager, so no. It wasn't a bad password-
the password reset option wouldn't work (literally wouldn't send the validation link.)
Called their CS who told me that subscriptions were handled by a 3rd party in the US- Digital River.
Digital river said I should cancel it on their website.
got DR and Kaspersky's CS on the same phone call. they finally complied and canceled the subscription.
A year later... "Your subsctiption will automatically renew!"
called them again. sent a letter. thought that was that until I saw they billed me anyhow.
tried to call them. they were giving me the run around.
Called the bank. to report fraud.
They were useless until I told them my next call would be FBI's financial crimes people. Suddenly, that charge back became super easy.
I already don’t like Microsoft or its products, but how in the Holy Fuck is that legal? You can’t at least use the edge on Xbox for that same functionality?
I had a sub once to something, can’t remember what, but they forced me to call them to cancel.
I recently had to call AT&T to cancel their internet service when I was moving. There's a link on their website that supposedly leads you to an unsubscribe option but in reality it just leads you to a broken page. I mentioned this while on the phone with the agent and he said "yes that's correct you have to call us to cancel" like it was standard procedure.
Really? I swear I just disabled rebill from my console last week.
Perhaps they've finally updated it, but back when I owned an Xbox One that wasn't possible
You can manage all your subscriptions directly from the Xbox
Yep I accidentally signed up lol
Yeah. Something like if you have a sign up button, right next to it in the same font/style should be a cancel subscription button. Click it and you enter your credentials then you get a email with a link to confirm cancelation. Everything would mimic the sign up process.
I don't think that would matter People will rush in with the promise of "free big titted people"... they'll jump through so many hoops, the hot big titted girl on the screen would egg them on through 45 different steps. Then you sign up and find out it's guys with gynecomastia and now you gotta do 45 steps to get out.
They don't worry about people accidentally signing up for some reason.
Yeah I guess in much the same way using ublock origin could lead to me missing out on hot milfs in my area.
chugs water
Wtf, you guys are blocking the PSAs? Here I am servicing all the lonely MILFs and single in the area wondering when reinforcements are arriving and-
drinks water
-and you're all blocking the PSAs?!
There's hot people out there that need us and I'm getting chaffed
You're doing the Lord's work, my friend.
Man you don't know how excited I am to finally catch you here in this thread. Seriously I've been trying to reach you for weeks. I don't know if you realize this but your car warranty has expired. There is still time to renew but if you've got a couple minutes I've got an opportunity that you really don't want to miss out on.
It's clearly a bad faith argument. The real logic is that if they make cancelling easy, frustrated people will do it. If cancelling is annoying or difficult enough, some people will give up and keep paying.
Yes, it is definitely impossible to create a system that confirms a user's selection. It is also impossible to make it so you can resume the subscription if accidentally canceled... or maybe, just maybe there is another reason why they want it the way it is.
Give me a fucking break
Let's say I'm the dumbest person alive and I canceled it without wanting to. Are they saying I'm so dumb that I can't subscribe again like I once did?
Companies also often try to stop customers from leaving by offering them better deals before they complete the cancellation process. A “call to cancel” mechanism lets some companies personalize a better deal for a would-be fleeing customer, and better understand why customers are leaving, some customer experience executives say.
This is very similar to how AOL operated back in day. The excuses they use for the abuse they give customers is just amazing.
This is called a lie, folks.
Yeah they want to make it too difficult to bother intentionally unsubscribing.
Then just make a prompt that asks "Are you sure you want to cancel our services?".
What if they accidentally click yes there too? Do you need a double sure confirmation? And a triple sure for that one? And so on?
And 15 confirmations in, once they've got the "click OK" rhythm going, we can put one that says "would you like to keep your subscription active?"
And a random screen where cancel means "exit out of this cancellation process" rather than "cancel subscription"
I'm sorry sir but you're going to have to get that cancellation request notorized
"First they came for the hot singles in my area and I said nothing. Now, as they try to take my hot new deals, I must legislate"
If a company makes it hard for me to cancel I won't mess around with them I'll just cancel the direct debit on my side and they can deal with it.
I will try and cancel using the approved method but really it's their responsibility to let you terminate the contract. After all what are they going to do, not let me open the contract again later on, of course they're not, so the onus is on them.
I use PayPal any chance I can doe subscriptions. Just delete the authorization and they cry as they can't bill me again. Then threaten to disable my account, which is like hey, thanks for taking care of that for me
A video game trade group called the Entertainment Software Association also sent a comment critical of the FTC proposals, arguing it could interfere with its ability to suggest recurring payment in the middle of gameplay.
Instead of investigating Hunter bidens penis congress should be busy burning big business to the ground
And who the f wants recurring payment reminders during gameplay...
It doesn't go far enough. For monthly payments you should have to confirm them at least annually with a positive assertion. When your card number changes, you should have to assert it as well.
The "convenience" of automatic payments and automatic updates of card numbers has let AOL and their like bilk millions and millions from people that forgot they were paying them.
California already has a law for this and they’re doing just fine
Sure, sounds real...
Well for sure companies think their customers are idiots. To what degree they actually are is questionable.
Lol, making us go to the actual website, not the app. Making us hunt down somewhere in “settings,” and not billing, to find the cancel button. Then clicking through 4 pages to complete the process…
Solid defense on that line of thought
Some of these issues can be Apple and Google’s fault since they control subscriptions if you buy through the app, but the company that makes the app controls your subscription if you subscribed outside of it. So it might be against the App Store terms of service to allow you to unsubscribe from inside the app. There’s a hidden setting on iOS to control all subscriptions which can be better or worse depending on your perspective.
I've started and canceled a few subs in google.play. It's pretty easy compared to dealing with any of the companies directly, by a ton
That’s true, I forgot about that.
Can we list the companies and boycott them?
The list of companies that don't do this would be shorter, and to be honest, it's functionally not possible to boycot them all.
Man, I remember back when the ESA were the good guys, when Jack Thompson tried to be famous.
I mean... they're not wrong.
But it is the right way to do business.