this post was submitted on 26 Jan 2024
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Discussion of climate, how it is changing, activism around that, the politics, and the energy systems change we need in order to stabilize things.

As a starting point, the burning of fossil fuels, and to a lesser extent deforestation and release of methane are responsible for the warming in recent decades: Graph of temperature as observed with significant warming, and simulated without added greenhouse gases and other anthropogentic changes, which shows no significant warming

How much each change to the atmosphere has warmed the world: IPCC AR6 Figure 2 - Thee bar charts: first chart: how much each gas has warmed the world.  About 1C of total warming.  Second chart:  about 1.5C of total warming from well-mixed greenhouse gases, offset by 0.4C of cooling from aerosols and negligible influence from changes to solar output, volcanoes, and internal variability.  Third chart: about 1.25C of warming from CO2, 0.5C from methane, and a bunch more in small quantities from other gases.  About 0.5C of cooling with large error bars from SO2.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Howarth found that LNG’s total emissions are between 24 and 274 percent more than coal’s, depending on how the LNG is transported.

Horrific.

We're making the same mistake now as we did after the Iraq War. During/after that war, there was a massive push to decrease US reliance on Middle Eastern oil. That was great, but unfortunately, most of the effort centered on domestic oil production, including fracking, which is even nastier than conventional oil production. We should have been building out and transitioning to renewables instead.

Now we have the same basic problem: Europe has realized it can't rely on Russia for its fossil fuels and is now greatly increasing consumption of LNG, which is even nastier (for climate emissions) than conventional fossil fuels, even apparently coal, which I didn't know was possible. That's insane!

Let's learn from this and build as much wind, solar, and other renewables as quickly as possible.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago

EU 2023 LNG imports have been below 2022 imports. That is still a massive increase compared to 2021, but that was to be expected. Maybe even more important the natural gas price is falling extremely quickly. It halved over the last year. LNG is more expensive then other transport methods of natural gas, so it is the first to be cut.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 10 months ago (3 children)

I think it's super weird that we are suddenly even attempting to call LNG environmentally friendly, it has always been a mess

[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 months ago

The one positive point is that methane-burning power plants can be spun up in under an hour whereas coal plants usually need a week to power up. If the vast majority of power comes from solar/wind/batteries and gas is only used as (secondary) backup, this may make sense.

Fossil marketing pretty successfully tries to eradicate the caveats and nuances from the discussion of course.

[–] peopleproblems 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I don't think anyone was actually buying that right?

The only people pushing for LNG were the oil companies selling it. Which, I mean, come on, we know better than to believe a word that comes from them.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 10 months ago

For those that don't know natural gas is a think tank tested way to brand methane. Natural gas is methane. They are the same thing. When you hear natural gas think "methane" because that is what natural gas is. For some reason "natural" makes you think it's a perfectly fine and good thing, but that's just good ol' propaganda that you believed because you didn't know any better.

Petroleum is also "natural". It forms naturally, in nature, all by itself, and it combusts if you light it on fire. It's so natural we can't make it ourselves that's why we drill wells several miles down and then inject compressed fluids at insane pressure to fracture the rock formations that natural petroleum is trapped in.

The problem is that methane is significantly worse than CO2 as a greenhouse gas, and if you burn methane, it breaks down into CO2. So when you hear "Clean burning natural gas" you are being spoon fed bullshit. It's not clean burning, it's lighting methane on fire to produce the same greenhouse gas they want you to think they're cutting down on.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Coal, oil, gasoline, propane, natural gas, biodiesel, wood fired stoves, candles, its all the same; molecules made up of a bunch of carbon bonded together. Add heat and oxygen and the bonds break in order to bond with oxygen, creating co2 or carbon monoxide and releasing heat. Its always gonna emit a shit ton of greenhouse gases, the entirety of the fuel is being turned into one.

[–] CookieOfFortune 17 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Wood takes atmospheric carbon to grow though, so it’s not a net addition. The carbon taken from the ground does increase the carbon in the atmosphere.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago

It's not all the same, partly because gases leak and may cause more damage than CO2.

[–] zinaer 6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Ok, but why are we comparing coal that somehow doesn't have to be transported against LNG that does. Can coal be teleported or something?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Mostly because the US has huge coal deposits but fairly limited coal exports. A lot of the discussion about LNG is whether it makes sense to use it to displace same-country coal extraction & use vs ship in LNG from far away.

[–] zinaer 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Great, thanks! Why doesn't the chart show costs of transportation of coal via ship as well? Do you have a link for the study mentioned in the graph by chance?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

It doesn't show those because the US isn't about to start large-scale coal exports.

The preprint is linked in the article

[–] HerrBeter -3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Sus

Edit so coal has been deemed the absolute worst energy bearer for combustion but suddenly there's a report that the somewhat better natural gas is dirtier?