this post was submitted on 05 Jul 2023
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Based on the excerpt from this Discworld book, what other items do you use regularly that would fit in this theory? (Boots and shoes are fair game!)

Text transcript for people who want it:

[The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money.

Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles.

But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while the poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet.

This was Captain Samuel Vimes 'Boots' theory of socioeconomic unfairness.]

Bonus: suggest ways you can repair/restore your item/other people's items.

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[–] dub 59 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] Sheltac 16 points 1 year ago

It really is. I have a few friends who are not doing very well, and it amazes me the shit they have to pay for.

[–] [email protected] 45 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

This whole thread reminded me of this old viral tweet

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[–] TeaHands 33 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I see Sir PTerry, I upvote.

And hey, just sliding this totally smoothly into the conversation, did you all know we have [email protected] (Lemmy / Kbin)

*sidles out awkwardly*

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

Super neat!! Thanks for the link. :) If anyone likes the style of writing, go look at the Discworld community. These books are great.

I'm hoping this quote can drive some critical thinking about sustainability, and maybe some discussion about how to better what people CAN afford/already have.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 year ago (3 children)

My problem is I don't know what products are expensive because they are good, and what products are a scam. No idea how to even search to find out either.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Oh easy, I just check for a thread on reddit where two guys are at each other's throats arguing the merits of different crescent wrenches

...oh, wait.

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[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Car repair. Towing and fixing a car with a ruined engine is ten times as much as doing regular maintenance. And it's not just the dollar cost of oil changes and belts: When you are better off, you have the free time to run that errand to do those things.

Dental care, for almost the exact same reasons.

General healthcare has all of those factors PLUS if your general health goes bad you may not be able to work so now fixing it is expensive and you have no income.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago

Boots, shoes, clothes, technology, cars, houses, furniture.

Everything.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (2 children)

@H3L1X reminds me of one rule from woodworkers/DIYers – buy a cheap set of tools, when one of the tools breaks, replace that one tool with a more expensive one (upgrading based on use)

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

That is true, I do quite like that rule.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Food.

If you don't have much money then it can be a lot harder to eat healthily, due to cost of fresh ingredients and time to cook, which is time you may not have.

This can lead to eating a lot of unhealthy and processed food, which then causes knock-on costs later with poor health, illness, and medical bills that aomeone with the money to eat healthily might have been able to avoid.

[–] whereisk 5 points 1 year ago

There's a reason why fast food companies have more shops per capita in lower socio-economic areas. For a lot of families asking them to "eat better" is like telling them "stop being poor".

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

I think the "time to cook" is the kicker here. Healthy food is really much cheaper, but you have to buy ingredients to cook with, not ready-to-eat or close to.

Things like dried lentils, beans, rice, etc are way cheaper than even inexpensive canned. In-season produce or frozen counterparts, too.

I think so many people underestimate the value of time.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Renting a house/appartment vs. owning is a pretty big one, same with renting vs owning most things.

Nice tools vs cheap tools. It really does seem to be everything, from clothes, to tools, to food and healthcare.

GNU STP.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

add insult to injury, banks not approving loans for homebuying even when the mortgage payment would be less than the current rent …

[–] PlaidBaron 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Home ownership bigtime. Yeah I have to do way more work to keep my house in good shape but every time I do it literally adds value to the place.

But I know Im damn lucky to own my own place. Not an option for many around the world.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Yeah, the maintenance can be a pain, but it does add value, and it is pretty satisfying to improve things.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago
[–] HexesofVexes 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Renting -

Buying a house is like having a bank account you can't access until you want to move. Renting a house is just paying into someone else's bank, and you end up unable to save for your own.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

He didn't predict how bad it would get. Corporations have been at war against the concept of ownership for the poor and middle class. Everything is a subscription now so you can't even own anything and housing is too expensive to buy, you can only rent.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

My mother always says: we are not so rich to afford cheap stuff.

For exactly this reason

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

Problem now is “luxury” brands, which is the same shit quality at a huge markup. Quality is often not even a consideration for producers these days.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I always thought that laundry was the best example of this.

Poor people go to the laundrette, which is expensive over time and time-consuming.

Less poor people buy cheap washing machines which are expensive to run and break sooner.

Rich people buy highly efficient washing machines which are cheaper to run and last for years.

And on top of that poor people buy cheaper clothes, which wear out sooner (as with the boots example) and dry their clothes indoors on hangers which, again, takes longer and also creates damp, unpleasant living conditions!

EDIT: Typos.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

I agree with your point, but a lot of the more expensive washing machines are not that reliable, and expensive to fix. I had to spend $200 on a refurbished circuit board. They had a whole business dedicated to repairing those boards. Usually cheap ones have simple parts that (used to be) cheap.

[–] Johem 7 points 1 year ago

It's Terry, so it's good. But as someone who buys expensive leather shoes due to fucked up feet and good shoes increasing the time until the hurt, it absolutely tracks. I've been using my 250€ leather shoes for three years now and they're still OK. 75€ standard sneakers I used before had holes in the soles within a year.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

House. If you can afford to buy one, it is much cheaper than to pay rent over decades.

Training. If you can afford to not earn money for a few years, training in a valuable skill will earn you much money.

More training. Sometimes you just need to stop earning money for a year.

Tools. It may be hard to choose good tools, some are overpriced for no good reason, but tools you work with instead of working around is a productivity booster.

BTW, this theory has a name in socio-economics, it is called the "poverty trap" (aka "it is expensive to be poor") it is not as much how the rich get richer (there are a lot of more salient mechanisms there) but more about how the poor remain poor.

[–] Wild_Mastic 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Oh wow did not expect to find a citation to a book I finished reading yesterday.

[–] axce 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)
[–] TeaHands 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Not the original commenter, but it's Men At Arms and it's one of my faves.

[–] axce 3 points 1 year ago

Thank you !

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (5 children)

@sunshine It's very true. There are ways to break the cycle but being poor often means also not having the time to fix or pick up stuff. I have been living of a low income for years now. I think like 80% percent of the stuff I own has been free or second hand.
Clothes dryer, washing machine, dishwasher, oven, microwave, furniture, clothes etc. etc. Sometimes it's tedious and frustrating.
But I also didn't have to work full time or two jobs just to buy all that crap new.
It means I get to spend money on good shoes for me and the kids. Good mattresses. New clothes for the kids because social pressure dictates it. Food.
The rest I build, repair, trade etc. etc. If this capitalist society collapses I'm fucked, off course.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Cloths for towels. Paper towels are convenient, but we've got 15 reusable ones that we can just throw in the wash afterwards.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

In a somewhat paradoxical fashion, it would be cheaper to buy and own many things over an extended period of time versus renting them. However, pooling resources to buy just one of something and have it be accessible to a community seems like the more ideal sustainable approach.. But we also see perversions of the 'sharing' model with things like ride-sharing and AirBnB. Just something some of the comments (i.e. on laundry and tools) made me think about.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

worse when a company puts out a durable product at a decent price, watches it become popular, then issues an “update” with crap durability and higher price

  • REI Adventures pants
  • Teva Mush flip-flops
[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

I still have those classic REI pants from over 20 years ago. They've been incredibly dependable in normal usage. When they finally required some maintenance tailoring recently, the tailor remarked on the excellent construction and fabric, saying "you can keep these for a long long time." "I have," said I, "and I will."

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Or vulture capitalists buying or taking over a brand with a good reputation for quality and durability and trashing them for a couple of years of profit. Always check for this when trying to BIFL.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There's a simpler saying: "you cannot afford to buy cheap things".

It's an effective way to climb out of poverty of you're making ends meat, so long as you're in a position where your things won't be stolen. Save up to buy quality, or buy used quality things that last and can be repaired. It's a wise investment, cheap goods are part of the poverty trap.

I mostly wear a single pair of $350 boots. The cost per mile makes them the cheapest footwear I can buy. I've worn them daily for 2 years, they have maybe one more year before they need a resole. Boots are only a single example. It's the same for everything from clothing to cars to houses to electronics.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Here's my example: Nice Hoka shoes are typically 100$+, but Sketcher's Work Sneakers are ~40$. The Hokas would last a lot longer and be more ergonomic, but that price is way out of my reach. The Sketchers get disintegrated by a year of use.

What I do is add arch supports and gel shoe inserts (9$ iirc) into the Sketchers, and replace those when they wear. It adds about two years of life to the shoes! :)

[–] TeaHands 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Funnily enough as I was just writing my other comment there was a knock at the door....my new Skechers have arrived lol! Last ones, as you predicted, started to disintegrate. Although the ones previous to those lasted for years, so I'd been kind of hoping I just got a bad pair. Your comment bodes, and now I'm off to look for those inserts so thanks for the tip.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

If you work on your feet/have to stand on concrete/tile, definitely look at "Heel That Pain" brand heel seats. Full price is way too much (44$ for two boxes), so look for sales.

There's a gel one and a more firm one. The gel one helped with sciatic pain, and still works ~3 pairs of shoes later.

(I've also layered the heel seats over top of the typical Dr. Scholl's work gel inserts. Works great for me but my partner hates the feel. YMMV.)

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago
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