this post was submitted on 01 May 2024
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The idea that Jews need their own state "to be safe" feels anti-Semitic to me. It's like admitting that antisemitism exists everywhere and instead of fighting it we just move the Jewish people somewhere else so it won't be a problem.
"The idea that the jewish people deserve self determination after suffering from millenia of discrimiation and going through the most industrious genocide in history feels anti-semitic to me."
yeah, an absolutely wild take. You're not helping Palestinians by denying the jewish people's right for self-determination.
By that logic we should give Manhattan back to the Lenape, since they also suffered a genocide a hundreds of years of discrimination.
yes, you're getting it! America is indigenous Land. Europeans stole it.
Reality is a bit more complex obviously, but yes, indigenous people have the same right to self determination as the jewsh do.
So if I'm a Native American and convert to Judaism, do I get two houses? And what about hall of famer Rod Carew? (He converted.)
Also, wouldn't it be better if people could live wherever they want and still get self-determination?
excuse me, what are you referring to?
You said the Jewish people need self-determination, just like Native Americans, and I agree.
But since you can convert to Judaism, does that mean anyone who converts gets to have a spot in Israel? And if a Native American converts to Judaism, do they get a house in Manhattan and Israel?
I have no idea what you're trying to get at. I am talking about the jewish as a people, not as a religion. So you don't just 'convert'. Jewish is an identity that goes beyond religion.
How many generations of observing Jewish religious practices does it take before one can claim that identity? Do the children of a Jewish person and a non-Jew only get to have a spare bedroom? What about someone with Jewish grandparents? Is a convert who follows religious doctrine strictly less worthy of a free house than my Jewish friend in high school who loved bacon cheeseburgers?
What I'm getting at is this sort of thing is exactly the problem: Thinking of Jewish people as "other" and "separate" is a precondition to discrimination. Acknowledging that they live everywhere and are part of the religious tapestry of a multi-ethnic nation is better and safer.
tl;dr - Adam Sandler's Hannukah Song has a powerful antisemitic message.
Jewish identity has been formed because of the discimitation and segregation they have been subjected to. Their aspirations to have their own safe environment is a reaction to that. Antisemitism predates Zionism.
Yes, clearly, antisemitism predated Zionism. But the "othering" of Jews is a precondition for antisemitism.
Well, obviously. And neither Europeans nor Arabs granted this to the jewish. Which made Zionism necessary.