this post was submitted on 25 Apr 2024

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371

shrimp is bugs (mander.xyz)

submitted 7 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[+] [email protected] -11 points 7 months ago (3 children)

The difference is that shrimp are delicious? Last time you got a bug in your mouth what was your instinctive response?

The great reset is bogus but there's definitely a "conspiracy" to get us to eat bugs... A boring, capitalist conspiracy. Just the next step in the race to the bottom, another cheap and low quality food that the unwashed masses can afford to keep them alive and trudging off to work.

I will eat bugs when I see the billionaires have them on their plates.

[–] Leviathan 21 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Fuck billionaires, if eating bugs is delicious and cuts emissions from factory farming, I'm in. The environment doesn't fit into some dick measuring contest with the rich and they don't decide my moral position.

[+] [email protected] -13 points 7 months ago (1 children)

That's the problem, it isn't delicious. That's why they keep coming up with schemes to use them as a protein additive, like "cricket flour".

I raise lamb free range on pasture, no inputs other than grass, and that's what I'll be eating for the foreseeable future. Let me tell you, that's delicious.

I would encourage anyone else concerned about factory farming to find a small producer, most of us will gladly even give you a tour and let you see our herds, we love to show off healthy animals on green grass. And we're often cheaper than the supermarket these days, no greedy middlemen to mark it up.

[–] Leviathan 24 points 7 months ago (1 children)

That's the problem, it isn't delicious. That's why they keep coming up with schemes to use them as a protein additive, like "cricket flour".

I've actually had a bunch of delicious insect based dishes, if you're open minded about it they aren't all that hard to find. Asian cooking is where they're at.

I raise lamb free range on pasture, no inputs other than grass, and that's what I'll be eating for the foreseeable future. Let me tell you, that's delicious.

That's cool, I grew up raising steer and sheep, I'm also aware of the environmental issues. I also still eat them although I've cut it down drastically.

I would encourage anyone else concerned about factory farming to find a small producer, most of us will gladly even give you a tour and let you see our herds, we love to show off healthy animals on green grass. And we're often cheaper than the supermarket these days, no greedy middlemen to mark it up.

I personally know many small producers, slaughter and dress my own meat, and I still think that, environmentally consciously, we should all switch to a mostly plant based diet and explore meat alternatives without fear.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

I still think that, environmentally consciously, we should all switch to a mostly plant based diet and explore meat alternatives without fear.

I don't have an issue with this statement, in fact I have friends who grow beans and lentils and I cook and eat dry beans every day in addition to my lamb. Plant proteins are healthy and delicious, and they easily stand alongside other standard dishes on our plates. Everyone I know eats a lot of beans.

My issue with the bugs is the same as I have with soy protein. Soy protein has been snuck into all manner of processed foods to boost protein numbers while replacing the higher quality proteins that you would expect in those foods (i.e. many cheap chicken breasts are injected with a solution of salt water and soy protein to plump them up and make you think you got more "chicken")

I feel like using insects this way just is another step in adulterating our food supply, separating those like you and me who know what we are eating from the "commoners" who will not.

I have no problem with explicitly eating bugs outright if you choose to, I just don't want to have them snuck into my hamburger at a restaurant.

Interestingly my ex-wife was from Taiwan and had never eaten insects except as a novelty - so it must be a different part of Asia where it's common. Taiwan tends to like fish, pork and chicken as well as tofu and black beans.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

I've never had a raw shrimp randomly fly into my mouth out of nowhere. I'm certain my response would be disgust. I don't like it when bugs do that, but I can't say it's ever been an issue because of the flavor. I can't say what the flavor even is.

There's no "conspiracy" to eat bugs, but there is a movement, which I agree with, promoting insects as a low resource cost protein alternative to meat. If you are flour made from grasshoppers you likely wouldn't even know unless told. I'm certain you don't actually know what they taste like, so how can you say they taste bad?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Valid point. When I grew up fishing for shrimp as a kid I was quite terrified of them until I was taught how to eat them.

I can assume they taste bad, because otherwise we would all be eating them already. Humans eat just about everything on the planet if it's tasty, even if it's really weird. Example: shrimp, lol.

Personally I don't see the need for it when we have plenty of plant sources of protein like pulses, and we can raise ruminants on otherwise useless land (like my hilly, rocky farm).

It seems to me just an excuse to continue overpopulating the planet. Sure, we could develop new protein sources to feed 10 billion - but if we had kept our population to the 4 billion it was in the 1970s we could all be eating thick beef steaks and salmon without worrying about straining the carrying capacity of the planet.

Maybe we should focus on getting our population down to a sustainable level before we worry about new and exotic foods.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

I think the issue with them is twofold. Presentation is hard to make look alright, and I think we do have a built in aversion to them, because evolutionarily bugs mean food that's gone bad. That said, plenty of cultures do eat bugs. It's mostly a European thing that bugs shouldn't be eaten. Places in both Africa and Asia do eat them, and I imagine other places as well. I have heard they can be tasty. Lobster was considered bad for a long time, but it's delicious when prepared properly (and butter helps).

I think another good source of animal protein are oysters. They're pretty easy to farm and they don't have a nervous system so don't feel pain. That said, most people think it's disgusting to eat raw oysters (which are even alive when eaten), but they're also delicious. It's just a culture thing. Plenty of foods that seem disgusting aren't.

I don't disagree eating plant sources is a good idea, but they do have different nutritional profiles. Animals have nutrients that we need that you won't get from almost any plant. We need diverse sources of food. I have no issue with small scale animal farming, but large scale is wasteful as hell. We grow so much corn to feed cows and other animals that could better be used for other things.

I disagree with this though:

It seems to me just an excuse to continue overpopulating the planet.

What is "overpopulate" mean? If everyone is fed and taken care of, isn't that by definition not overpopulated? Who decides what the correct amount of people is? If you're religious then certainly more people alive means whatever god(s) decided that, and if you aren't then you must know it's arbitrary. More people isn't bad, as long as it's sustainable and doesn't cause damage to the planet. That said, we are causing damage to the planet and we aren't going to stop reproducing just because someone said so. We should reduce the impact people have instead, because that's the only real choice we have. A mandate stopping reproduction is not a real choice.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I draw the line at "overpopulated" when our resource consumption is unsustainable to the point where we are becoming the sole consumer of the planet.

It's commonly stated that we would need 2 planets the same size to sustain our current population in a way that doesn't result in eventual collapse.

We've cleared vast land areas and scoured the sea of fish in our quest for calories. Eating bugs will not be the solution that makes us sustainable.

It's been proven our population increases every time we increase our carrying capacity, such as through the invention of nitrogen fertilizer, mechanized agriculture etc. And there has never been a time that there were not people starving somewhere.

If we carry on this path we will be eating bugs and people will still be starving while ecosystems continue to collapse. It sounds like there is no net gain, IMO.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

It's almost all about resource allocation. We can easily support a much larger population, but we have so much waste.

If we carry on this path we will be eating bugs and people will still be starving while ecosystems continue to collapse. It sounds like there is no net gain, IMO.

Yeah, I don't get this. The bad thing in this sentence seems to be emphasizing the eating of bugs. I could write the same sentence and say corn instead. I still haven't seen a reason of why eating bugs is a bad thing, besides you just thinking it's gross. I eat raw oysters. Gross is relative, not intrinsic.

The carrying capacity of Earth is based on how efficiently we use resources. We could feed everyone on earth today if we didn't have waste, and we aren't even using all the arable land that's available, let alone using it efficiently. Farming bugs would easily multiply our efficiency.

I can only see that as a good thing. More people means more ideas. More ideas mean more innovations and things that could move us forward. I see Humans, assuming we survive the next century or so, as a multi-planet species. If we can get to the point that life as we know it isn't stuck to one rock I see that as a good thing to seek. If we have more innovations, that can only speed up that process and increase the chance we make it.