this post was submitted on 31 Mar 2024
92 points (75.8% liked)

Men's Liberation

1880 readers
1 users here now

This community is first and foremost a feminist community for men and masc people, but it is also a place to talk about men’s issues with a particular focus on intersectionality.


Rules

Everybody is welcome, but this is primarily a space for men and masc people


Non-masculine perspectives are incredibly important in making sure that the lived experiences of others are present in discussions on masculinity, but please remember that this is a space to discuss issues pertaining to men and masc individuals. Be kind, open-minded, and take care that you aren't talking over men expressing their own lived experiences.



Be productive


Be proactive in forming a productive discussion. Constructive criticism of our community is fine, but if you mainly criticize feminism or other people's efforts to solve gender issues, your post/comment will be removed.

Keep the following guidelines in mind when posting:

  • Build upon the OP
  • Discuss concepts rather than semantics
  • No low effort comments
  • No personal attacks


Assume good faith


Do not call other submitters' personal experiences into question.



No bigotry


Slurs, hate speech, and negative stereotyping towards marginalized groups will not be tolerated.



No brigading


Do not participate if you have been linked to this discussion from elsewhere. Similarly, links to elsewhere on the threadiverse must promote constructive discussion of men’s issues.



Recommended Reading

Related Communities

[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]


founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I’m not a very “masculine” man, I guess. I like flowers, and I wear purple. I sip lattes and my hair is longer than average. I have a trace of a British accent, which makes me sound prissy. I do lift weights at the gym most days, but it certainly hasn’t turned me into the Hulk. When I’m sad, I cry, and when I am delighted, I laugh. I am tender toward animals. Does it add up to being “unmanly”?

If you substitute for black coffee, I fulfill just about all of this criteria.

Based on my limited understanding of what masculinity is supposed to be, he beats me at it.

So he admits to not understanding masculinity, not engaging with it, then stating that it is pointless. Methinks he is threatened by masculinity and thus he tries to claim it is unnecessary or automatically and necessarily harmful on its face. The "essence" of the sexes — masculinity and feminity — have been commercialized, commodified, pulled out by the roots and dipped in a disinfectant solution. I can see this in how every reference to his understanding is hinged on pop stars and movie figures.

What is masculinity? It's a hard term to define because the basic sense of it is so general. How do you describe sight? How do you describe feeling confident? It's not exactly easy to define the sweeping, largest-scale aspects of our lives. I think that masculinity is not set in stone but there are some general, atavistic elements of it that are mostly universal to all men who have those traits, borne necessarily of living in a dangerous world and needing to protect kith and kin:

  • Disagreeableness (sometimes decisions must be made without a discussion, life or death, etc)
  • Lowered inhibition (willingness to go out and take risks for higher gain)
  • Ability to withstand troublesome situations/pain (one only needs to look to the conditions that construction and other trades workers endure, traditionally masculine jobs)

Women historically often encapsulated the reversal or mirror of many of these traits:

  • Agreeableness (physically smaller and weaker women tend to be safer in numbers and when working together)
  • Higher inhibition (risk taking = higher chance of death = less chance children survive or are born)
  • More apt to improving on a rough environment instead of just dealing with it (healthier, happier home, etc)

It isn't to say that I don't believe that these traits cross over between the sexes, of course they do, and someone can embody many of these traits and be masculine or feminine.

But people have an essence about them. The reader himself states that he considers himself to be more feminine. I think that it is healthy and normal to recognize one's essence in this manner, and to strive to live in comport with their basic feeling of self. I lived a very feminized life for years and was unhappy with myself. Upon taking on some more masculine traits, I found strength and austerity that I lacked before.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I think the traits you list are a bit too abstract. When people list traits they strive for, they are usually derived from yours.

Yours might factually fit the data, but men don't aim to be disagreeable, they aim to be independent or confident. Same with women and being empathetic and social.

The problem is that everyone needs all those traits. This is where the author fails by saying the groups are pointless.

I think the ratio of how pronounced the traits are is what makes masculinity and femininity.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago

I certainly can be more specific but people don't tend to like when you get too detailed. I don't think people strive towards these traits necessarily, and certainly someone raised in such a way will do so naturally without thought, which is partially why is hard to define masculinity etc. I do like what you say, and I absolutely agree that both sets of traits are needed. It's just that they tend to weigh differently with populations