this post was submitted on 06 Mar 2024
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submitted 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) by deadsuperhero to c/fediverse
 

Highlighting the recent report of users and admins being unable to delete images, and how Trust & Safety tooling is currently lacking.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago (27 children)

Was going to say "another one of these?" but, wow, the article really further highlights the childish nature of the Lemmy devs... Can't wait for Sublinks to reach feature parity and become main stream, so we can leave this dark phase behind.

[–] [email protected] 52 points 8 months ago (4 children)

You don't understand how open source works. You are not entitled to any features. Let the devs go on their own pace. A lot of open source projects shut down because of similar reasons.

[–] [email protected] 38 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Likewise, an open source project can totally die if they refuse to engage with the needs of the users. The lack of moderation and content management tools have been a longstanding criticism of Lemmy, and instances will migrate to alternatives that address these concerns. It is a genuine legal liability for instance operators if they are unable to sufficiently delete CSAM/illegal content or comply with EU regulations.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

But opensource projects are more likely to get dropped by devs than losing their userbase from what I've seen. I could be wrong. Both our points are true. That's the best part of fediverse. If one doesn't like lemmy, they are free to choose an alternative. I just don't agree with demanding features from open source developers. There is a distinct line between demanding and requesting. I'm not saying lemmy is perfect. Maybe Sublinks would be better. Let's wait. But even Sublinks won't be sustainable if users do not respect developers time and patience.

[–] FlyingSquid 12 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I think there is also a distinct line between demanding, for example, a new animated avatar feature and demanding a way to delete child porn.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago
[–] deadsuperhero 27 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

While I think you're correct about it ultimately being their project, and that users are in no place to demand or expect anything, this thing takes on whole other dimensions once a project is all about building a social platform. Particularly one where volunteers host part of the network themselves.

It's one thing to look at some random demand to write everything in a P2P architecture because DNS is too centralized. When I worked on Diaspora, I literally saw people demand stuff like that, and laughed it off. I'm trying to build a platform that exists today, not some pixie dream bullshit compromised of academic circle-jerking.

But when it comes to basic table stakes for participating in a network that already exists, things change a bit. This is especially true when you're connecting to a global network that has:

  • Hate Speech
  • Targeted Harassment Campaigns
  • Child Pornography
  • Extreme Gore and Violence

Suddenly, it makes a lot of sense to say "you know what, admins are going to want to filter this shit out, maybe it's reasonable for them to have some tools and fixtures that are part of core."

Unfortunately, these devs are the kind of people who scream angrily when someone says "Hey, this thing doesn't actually respect local image deletes / GDPR stuff / content deletion on account deletion". To me, that's fucking insane.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

You don't know how social networks work. They only survive based on network effects, if they don't have the most basic functionality that users expect (like complying with privacy legislation), then they will fail to reach critical mass and be outcompeted and die.

If the devs don't want to provide the most basic functions that any user of a social network would expect, they're welcome to be downvoted to hell and have their project go back to being one of the millions of forgotten and unviewed personal github projects.

Open source projects die because it takes both technical talent and attention to your users to make a project successful, and for-profit companies often pay different people to do those.

[–] DrCake 14 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

The entire point of the “fediverse” is to combat the network effect. Don’t like Lemmy? Move to another app and still communicate with people on Lemmy. Plus it’s all open, can’t find an app you like? Build one or wait for someone to build one you like.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 8 months ago

The entire point of the “fediverse” is to combat the network effect.

No, it's not.

The purpose of the fediverse is to decentralize control of the network, it does not eliminate network effects in any way shape or form. At the end of the day a social network is only as valuable as the users using it and contributing content to it. If they don't find lemmy pleasant to use, they're not going to say "let me jump to mastodon" they're going to go to Reddit.

Build one or wait for someone to build one you like.

You really don't understand network effects if you think you can just sit around and wait for basic functionality and expect your network not to die.

[–] Badeendje 2 points 8 months ago (16 children)

We can expect them to follow the law. And yes this means implementing required features to comply with the law.

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[–] [email protected] 33 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (4 children)

I disagree strongly that they are childish. They are 100% correct in what they are saying here. Also this article doesn't "highlight" their behavior, it's actually "cherry-picking" behavior that puts them in a bad light. Similar to tabloids read by the lowest iq crowds.

You don't demand anything from open source devs. You feel gratitude for what you have.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Yeah same. I've been looking forward to sublinks for quite a while now. I'm jumping to it as soon as it's ready

[–] toasteecup 7 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

What is sublinks?

Update: there was a link in the article, thanks though!

[–] [email protected] 10 points 8 months ago (2 children)

https://sublinks.org/

"Sublinks, crafted using Java Spring Boot, stands as a state-of-the-art link aggregation and microblogging platform, reminiscent yet advanced compared to Lemmy & Kbin."

[–] deadsuperhero 12 points 8 months ago

Yeah, I'm pretty excited about it. Apparently the Pangora (Lemmy fork) dev joined forces, and the new UI is starting to look great.

https://bytes.programming.dev/notes/9qi6rc2avj3gn9dx

[–] [email protected] 11 points 8 months ago

I can't wait to migrate from Lemmy to it. Looks good and all Apps should be working with it

Followed Sublinks on Mastodon for updates 😼

[–] asdfasdfasdf 10 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Java is horrible. And Lemmy is open source. We could just fork it and have the best of both worlds.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 8 months ago

The core issue here is that there are too many things to do, and too few developers to do them. By the way, for a huge number of these things that need to be done, there is most likely at least one person who thinks it’s the absolute highest priority for Lemmy. Forking would not help fix this issue, it would only make it worse.

In other words: if you’re a Rust dev, you can just fix it in Lemmy anyway, so there is no benefit from forking. If you’re not a Rust dev, then after forking, you will have a new repo to create issues on, except you’ll have 0 devs to actually fix them.

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