this post was submitted on 02 Jan 2024
-19 points (26.8% liked)

Fuck Cars

8855 readers
276 users here now

A place to discuss problems of car centric infrastructure or how it hurts us all. Let's explore the bad world of Cars!

Rules

1. Be CivilYou may not agree on ideas, but please do not be needlessly rude or insulting to other people in this community.

2. No hate speechDon't discriminate or disparage people on the basis of sex, gender, race, ethnicity, nationality, religion, or sexuality.

3. Don't harass peopleDon't follow people you disagree with into multiple threads or into PMs to insult, disparage, or otherwise attack them. And certainly don't doxx any non-public figures.

4. Stay on topicThis community is about cars, their externalities in society, car-dependency, and solutions to these.

5. No repostsDo not repost content that has already been posted in this community.

Moderator discretion will be used to judge reports with regard to the above rules.

Posting Guidelines

In the absence of a flair system on lemmy yet, let’s try to make it easier to scan through posts by type in here by using tags:

Recommended communities:

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

I find this ignorance really frustrating that people believe purchasing an electric car is somehow environmentally neutral. People should be educated on the environmental toll of EV production, lithium mining, tire pollution etc.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] FireRetardant 3 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Yes, thats the point. EVs are still cars and have a massive individual resource and space requirement. Shifting away from car centric design would save energy and space in urban environments. Transit shares it's life cycle with many more people than private vehicles do which spreads its larger resource and energy demand accross a signifcantly larger ridership.

[–] fenynro 5 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I completely agree with that message, but until we get to that point there is a clear utility for EVs.

Shifting urban development to be less car-centric overall will take decades of effort, if not generations, and we can't expect people to quit their commuter job, sell their car, and find an overlap of employment and public transport that works for the planet when there's no social or infrastructural support for it.

In the meantime, to me at least, it makes sense to transition to EVs instead of ICE while that infrastructure is developed. It seems to me that perfect (a public transportation focused society) is becoming the enemy of good (reduced emissions for the sea of single person vehicles we currently have), or at least that is frequently my perception when every thread talking about EVs has people in the comments mentioning manufacturing costs as a hurdle, when the only plausible alternative is ICE vehicles with more environmental impact

[–] FireRetardant 2 points 6 months ago

We can't, but we also can't expect it to be possible to change if we don't stop zoning in such low and sprawling densities. The more car centric infrastructure we build, the deeper the hole gets. We can build transit prioritized neighbourhoods and also encourage EV development, but the former is nearly illegal to build in much of North America.

[–] AA5B 1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Everyone here agrees with that sentiment or they probably wouldn’t be here. However an individual can’t just whistle up a transit system. Even in the best of cases, transit takes years or decades to develop

I live in a part of the US with decent transit, and have commuted by rail where possible. I’m a big fan of rail and advocate for it. My town is centered on a train station and is zoned for higher population density near the center, creating a nice active walkable downtown with a traditional “Main Street “, and a quick train ride to the nearby city. We do everything right, to a greater extent than most of the US, but I still need a car

Anyhow, working from home is even better for the environment than transit, I walk to restaurants and parks, and still need a car. My electrical provider only has 20% renewable energy thanks to NIMBYs , but coal is long gone so overall my EV is pretty clean, and I use it less every year

[–] FireRetardant 2 points 6 months ago

Overall I am pro electrification of cars, I just don't like that they are pushed as some ultra green revolution. The overall energy expenditure on them is still massive. Other cities should focus on becoming more walkable and transit friendly like yours is, that way people actually have the option to travel in truly more effecient ways like walking or transit. Pushing just electricfication of cars while not addressing any of the other concerns of them like the economic and zoning costs of roads and extensive parking lots is just making an ineffecient system slightly less ineffcient.