this post was submitted on 26 Nov 2023
323 points (99.1% liked)

politics

19097 readers
3759 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Americans are increasingly unlikely to believe that those who work hard will get ahead and that their children will be better off than they are, according to two recent polls.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] jordanlund 32 points 11 months ago (3 children)

"the American Dream — that if you work hard you'll get ahead — still holds true."

The fact that they continue to re-define what "The American Dream" actually is proves it died a long time ago.

Anyone else remember when the American dream was owning your own home with a white picket fence?

[–] nucleative 19 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

I don't know the origin of the concept called "the American dream" but I've heard as well that it involved something like:

3 bedroom house

White picket fence

2.2 kids

1 dog

2 cars in the driveway

2 weeks of family vacation

One breadwinner and one homemaker

Available to anyone who can work at the factory 40 hours a week. Basically "The Wonder Years" TV series in a nutshell.

But the idea that if you work hard you'll get ahead is ultimately the core of it. Some measurable, definable "hard work output" equals some obtainable reward, and harder work means even more reward. And really smart plus really hard work means even more opportunities are unlocked.

A lot of countries can't offer this or don't have a system of advancing through social glass ceilings or "castes".

So in that way it at least seems like the US still offers this although more and more difficult to achieve, connections are more crucial, or figuring out some trick (a side gig) is needed.

I know way too many people with a college degree that can hardly afford the rent.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I've got that. 35, wife doesn't work, second kid on the way. The fence isn't white and there's actually 3 cars, I couldn't bring myself to get rid of the convertible in the garage.

[–] nucleative 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

That's awesome! That particular dream is far from unobtainable, but I think it went from basically a gimme for anybody who followed the college degree route to being something much more difficult for everybody to achieve.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

Unfortunately a college degree means almost nothing now. It's still a prerequisite for a lot of paths, but most college graduates are genuinely idiots. Truly worthless, can barely write a proper paper, dults.

My senior year I was grading papers written by juniors in another department and was embarrassed for them. I asked the professor, and he said he had to grade them on a curve because if he failed them all he's in trouble.

College is now seen as this transactional, I give you money, you give me a degree, then someone gives me a good life. Nowhere on there was there hard work or skill mastery.

An undergrad degree is just the new highschool diploma now for this reason. Someone needs gradschool or genuine merits they can show off to separate themselves from the watered down pool of degree holding fools.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 11 months ago (1 children)

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/american-dream.asp

No, that's pretty much the key note of the original definition.

You, like many, just thought the cliche "house with two kids" depicted to show a character was living the Dream was the Dream, but the concept was always about opportunity being available for those willing to put in effort.

Although, obviously, since it was coined in 1931 "everyone" had some notable exceptions.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago

It's hilarious that someone downvoted you. You pointed out the facts and fuck the facts when they contradict what I want to be true! It's the same shit I see from conservatives (and I guess some others) when they insisted that "the definition of recession was changed!" because the short-hand oversimplified rule of thumb definition is all they knew, and when the facts show that their oversimplified view was not reality. . .well "downvote" them.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Nowadays, if you can afford the Venti latte instead of the Tall, you'll be the envy of all your pals.