this post was submitted on 08 Nov 2023
250 points (97.3% liked)

politics

19148 readers
4396 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Asked whether they believed Trump has or has not “committed serious federal crimes,” 54 percent of poll respondents replied that he had. But 19 percent of them confirmed they’d still vote for this criminal ex-president in 2024. Along the same vein, 13 percent of those who believe Trump’s efforts to overturn the 2020 election results “threatened American democracy” still plan to vote for him next year.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

This is in no way a defense of Trump, but history shows that right and wrong, criminal or visionary, terrorist or martyr - those are all a question of victors and history. There is every chance they see Trump in the same vein as the founding fathers - all of whom would've been strung up had the war for independence gone the other way.

They seem to simply be casting their lots with him. Whether he is a criminal or not is irrelevant to them because they believe in his vision. Which is why Trump is more a symptom of the problem than the actual problem. He has tapped into this disaffection better than any other right-winger, but it's clear there is a swell of support for these ideas.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think it's disingenuous to draw that correlation. Yes, the Founding Fathers were in rebellion against their parent state. That's where the parallels end. Their parent state was also ruling from the other side of the ocean and allowing any representation for the colony's interests. What Trump proposes to do is to go back to that authoritarian rule, but under his control. His base loves that idea and wants to see him be someone like Putin, whom they idolize. Freedom for themselves, and slavery for everyone else.

I grant you, they see themselves as the patriotic heroes defending what they see as their patriotic stance. But the comparison fails under minimal scrutiny.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I certainly don't mean to be disingenuous and that is a critique I take quite seriously. I assure you I post in earnest. I'm not saying there are parallels beyond the superficial or any sort of validity to Trump and his fascist sycophants. Just that from their perspective, they might see them as far more alike than you or I do.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

I get it, and I upvoted you. You're presenting their perspective of themselves. I felt compelled to go further and explain how that perspective fails.