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this post was submitted on 04 Nov 2023
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Neither is Israel. Please educate yourself on this multi-millennia long conflict before trying to claim it's not a complicated situation.
Shit, here's a short video that might help explain why this isn't anywhere close to as cut and dry as you want it to be: https://youtu.be/m19F4IHTVGc?si=F3X8LGUrQGMHdXVv
this is bullshit, zionism is a far right fascist ideology, it has nothing to do with history besides senseless justification for its own shitty, worthless existence
Israel is a white supremacist settler-colonialist state. End of story.
Seventy years doesn't qualify as "multi-millenia," okay?
You can keep saying that but they aren't white, and they are the original settlers of the area... Soooo not end of story, not even part of the story.
Yeah but 3000 years is so....
Maybe watch the video? Or read up on history? Like maybe look at the buildings Jewish people built there thousands of years ago that are still standing? And there's the fact that they've been there the whole time? Sure there was a migration of Jewish people coming back after WW2, but the population didn't go from 0. They were always there.
In fact the Jewish population was the reason the white colonizers (the British ) left Israel in the late 40's.
oh you're such an idiotic bitch
Go watch the video. The Jewish population literally kicked them out. That's literal facts, so I think you're the idiotic bitch.
Y'all really don't want to educate yourselves on this and you just want to say it's a super simple situation that you've already figured out.
Or you're just super racist like the other guy.
Say it louder. Bellow it from the rooftops so that every Jewish person in occupied Palestine can hear you - they aren’t “white” enough for you… just like your European ancestors insisted when they massacred Jewish people and drove them from their homes due to their rabid antisemitism. Show them that they are nothing but kapos to you, right-winger - show them that you will only support them as long as they are repressing brown people for you in the middle-east.
Show them what true antisemitism looks like in the way that only you and your ilk can.
Pulling 2930 years out of your arrse is not the magic trick you assume it to be.
Did you only figure out now that there have always been Jewish Palestinians in Palestine? Wait till you find out that the earth isn't flat...
I'm fucking Jewish you raging asshole. My ancestors are the ones that were massacred you absolute fucking disgrace of a human.
It's not out my ass, it's out of history.
Okay so you understand that that proves you're wrong right?
But just fuck you. Stop trying to white wash me and my family you complete tool.
Good... now I can ask you directly - what does it feel like to play kapo for the very people that invented antisemitism?
There's something I need you to explain for me... have you or have you not noticed that all of Israel's enablers - all the countries that have proven so fond of the idea of Israel including England, where antisemitic Christians invented Zionism - are literally countries with deep histories of white supremacism, colonialism and... drumroll, please... antisemitism?
Which part of...
...didn't you understand the first time around?
Still not getting this, are you? Those white supremacists that are cheering Israel on with you? They will only see you as "white enough" as long as it suits them. When they inevitably abandon Israel because their favorite little white supremacist colonialist project has become a costly dead-end, you will witness them turn straight back into the overt antisemites they were before WW2 made overt antisemitism unfashionable.
That's who you share an ideological bed with.
Just admit you're anti semitic and you don't want to have to go through that self realization.
You've actively refused to admit it's a complicated multi millennia situation, but then admitted that Israelites were there all along so the original colonizers were not them.
Also
I don't fuck with their racist ass shit either. I'm not white, it doesn't matter if you or they are trying to white wash me and my fucking family. You racist piece of shit.
Not answering the question, huh? The people who created Israel and runs it to this very day learned their white supremacist colonialism from the best in the game - France, Germany, Britain and, of course, the US - I guess it's just a pure coincidence that these countries, historical and traditional hotbeds of fundamentalist white supremacism and antisemitism, are also Israel's most generous backers, eh?
You don't have to answer - it's a question more and more people will be asking - and answering - no matter what you or your glorified Crusader state does.
Don't project your (pretty typical) right-wing self-hatred onto me... I'm not the one apologizing for oppressors and mass-murderers. You are.
There's nothing complicated about white supremacist settler-colonialism - not for those who aren't willing collaborators, anyway.
Yes, the Palestinians have been there for a very long time. You know... in Palestine.
Which part of...
...didn't you get the first time around?
You literally share the same ideological bed as the kind of people who perpetrated the Holocaust (who, incidentally, also considered forcefully displacing European Jewish people to Palestine - perfectly in-line with the beliefs of the antisemitic originators of the ideology of Zionism).
So yes... you are fully onboard with their "racist ass shit" white supremacism - their "racist ass shit" white supremacism is literally the only reason modern-day Israel can exist in the way that it does today. You didn't think that Israel funds it's vast murder-toy collection by selling the water it steals from Palestinians, did you?
I've already answered your "question" and it's based on a racist false premise you're continuing to perpetuate because you can't reconcile your own racist beliefs being racist. So you pin up this big strawman that I never said so your gymnastics can suit yourself.
Also
You seem to bitch a lot about "white supremacist colonizers", but calling it Palestine is literally the white supremacist colonizer name for it. That's what the Roman empire decided to rename it after they took it over.
No, you haven't. Here... I'll repost it to shake up your memory.
Accusing everyone that's pointing out your white supremacist beliefs of "reverse racism" hasn't worked out that well for any of your other right-wing brethren... but maybe you'll be the exception, right?
White supremacist ideology didn't exist back when the Roman empire was a thing - I guess we can also tack "doesn't understand what white supremacism is" to your PragerU-level lack of historical understanding, eh?
I wouldn't know. Because I'm not.
That's actually a subset of Israel's supporters. And by the fucking way I've never voiced support of what the current government is doing, I stated it was a complicated situation. And you decided that meant I gargle Netanyahu's balls.
You're literally white washing an entire group of people and ignoring thousands of years of history just so you can claim actual racism as reverse racism. That's God tier racism, congrats.
I'm sick of you calling me right wing. You don't know me, and it couldn't be farther from the truth. I do know however, that your entire spiel has been rife with racism, so you're likely the right winger here larping as liberal and you're not arguing in good faith.
I'm not accusing everyone, I'm accusing you. For your racist overtones.
Bruh are you fucking kidding me? Us vs then supremacy has existed since the dawn of man. It existed back when the neanderthal were around, so it definitely existed back then
Roman empire was the first real go at White supremacy. Their whole thing was "you know, we're better than everyone else at things, let's take them over", moreover the reason the Romans renamed it was because they didn't like Jewish people. Tell me how that's different from your proud boy ass.
Yes - you fucking are. The modern-day state of Israel is a creation of western colonialism - you know... the exact same western colonialism that resulted in the Nazis looking for their precious "lebensraum" in the (so-called) "Jewish-Bolshevist" east? You know... the exact same (so-called) "western civilization" that invented antisemitism? Israel is a kapo state, doing the bidding of and being enabled by the same white supremacist and antisemitic powers that made Jewish life so damn difficult and next-to impossible in the west in the first place.
And here you are... running interference against the people that is pointing out this inconvenient truth out to you and everybody else.
So, again... what does it feel like to play kapo for the very people that invented antisemitism?
Yeah, you're right - I left out quite a few. Canada, Australia, Apartheid-South Africa - man, the white supremacist rabbit-hole just gets deeper and deeper, doesn't it?
Sooo... you still don't understand squat about white supremacism. Nothing about that has changed.
You can stop being a right-winger any time you damn well feel like it - it is a choice, you know.
Clyde, you accusing people who are pointing out your investment in white supremacist propaganda doesn't make you unique. It's one of the go-to strategies of every white supremacist that learned their ideology watching Ben Shapiro videos.
White supremacism didn't exist back when the Roman empire was a thing because white supremacism hadn't been invented yet. You know... the same reason the Romans didn't have M16 rifles? The "scientific racism" which underpins the modern-day ideology of white supremacism is a purely European invention that arose during the colonialist era starting with the (so-called) "Reconquista" in Spain. I hope this is not too difficult for you to understand.
That's a lot of text just to show you don't know what you're talking about.
Okay, I'm sorry that you can't understand that white supremacy is still white supremacy even if the phrase didn't exist.
The concept still did ... Like, what do you call someone that enslaves other races for being lesser than them, takes over their land, changes shit because fuck them etc etc?
White supremacists, or ancient Romans.
They laid the ground work for all of it, and that's why you're so vehemently defending them, you alt right people love you some white supremacy that isn't called it.
Greeks and Romans did the racism: https://www.jstor.org/stable/40023593
But you're literally the racist POS here. You've done Jack shit to deny it other than try to play the uno reverse card, while I've pointed out your white supremacist bullshit.
All you've done is throw up a strawman and call that racism, the problem with a strawman is, I never said it or claim to agree with it.
Sorry you don't like people of color getting their ancestral land back. I can't wait to hear your thoughts on native Americans and African Americans 🙄 I bet you don't want them to get reparations.
You didn't have the foggiest clue how white supremacism works a while ago... you don't have the foggiest clue how white supremacism works now. Nothing has changed.
Clyde, read this part again, and read it carefully.
White supremacism didn’t exist back when the Roman empire was a thing because white supremacism hadn’t been invented yet. You know… the same reason the Romans didn’t have M16 rifles? The “scientific racism” which underpins the modern-day ideology of white supremacism is a purely European invention that arose during the colonialist era starting with the (so-called) “Reconquista” in Spain.
Again... you accusing people who are pointing out your investment in white supremacist propaganda of "reverse racism" doesn’t make you unique. It just makes you a run-of-the-mill, made-in-a-mold white supremacism apologist.
Clyde, you apologizing for a white supremacist settler-colonialist state is not a strawman - it's you apologizing for a white supremacist settler-colonialist state. That's you... no amount of deflection changes that.
The Palestinians will get their land back eventually - white supremacist settler-colonialist projects are as unsustainable in the middle-east as they proved to be in Africa. Your hoped-for genocide will fail.
An apple is still an apple regardless of whether you call it an apple.
If this sentence doesn't make sense to you, there's no need to proceed because you're just actively refusing logic.
And again, I don't support what the Israeli government is doing, that's more strawman out of you.
A white supremacist settler-colonialist state is still a white supremacist settler-colonialist state regardless of how much white supremacist propaganda you peddle in a vain attempt to prove otherwise.
Nobody is stopping you from scampering away from this, right-winger.
You're the right-winger. This is well established. You scoff at the face of objective truth, throw up strawman arguments that no one made and make a bunch of wildly racist comments then play "no u". You keep white washing an entire people, calling them colonizers, but that's our ancestral home, regardless of the atrocities that the government is currently doing. It's not the Palestinians ancestral home, but they've been there for such a long time that the correct action is a two state solution. Neither side wants that though. But all you want is to throw antisemitism around.
You've played every racist possible angle there is and then have the audacity to claim it's not racist, everyone else is. And you keep calling my liberal ass right-wing, because you proud boys love your LARPing.
Keep your tiki torches out of here.
Again... a white supremacist settler-colonialist state is still a white supremacist settler-colonialist state regardless of how much white supremacist propaganda you peddle in a vain attempt to prove otherwise.
Do you have any other "Big Lies" you wanna try hiding behind? Your current ones seem a bit... threadbare.
That's fascinating, but I've already disproven that claim. So you can keep saying it all you want but it doesn't make it true.
I'm not hiding behind any lies, stop trying to play the uno reverse card and come up with a legitimate true statement.
Demonstrating your abject ignorance on the subject matter does not equate to you "disproving" anything, Clyde.
Your wish is my command. Here goes...
A white supremacist settler-colonialist state is still a white supremacist settler-colonialist state regardless of how much white supremacist propaganda you peddle in a vain attempt to prove otherwise.
No I said "legitimate true statement."
Not racist lies that you've tried to spread from the beginning.
You can't be a colonizer of your own land, and stop with your racist white washing of an entire people.
Like if native Americans were supported by the US government to take back land you'd be over here calling them white supremacist colonizers. Because that's the same fucking thing.
Both groups are people of color, both groups were forced out of their native lands, it's not like either group just said "oh yeah, totally come massacre us and take our land"
No, they were colonized, forcibly removed. To take your property back does not magically turn you white or into a colonizer. Holy fuck you're dense.
True... European Jewish people can't be colonizers in Europe.
No, no, no... if you wish to compare a white supremacist settler-colonialist state to something, you need to compare it with another white supremacist settler-colonialist state - you know, such as the US, for instance.
Yes, European Jewish people were forced out of their native lands - by Europeans.
Oh, oh... right. Let me check... here's one!
A white supremacist settler-colonialist state is still a white supremacist settler-colonialist state regardless of how much white supremacist propaganda you peddle in a vain attempt to prove otherwise.
So, you're back to ignoring history. Gotcha, right. So you know where they came from before they were forced to live in Europe right? ... Like, you understand they didn't start there right? Their native land, European Jews, African Jews all Jews, have a native land in Israel. You can test our fucking blood. That's where we came from before we were forced out.
So it's exactly the fucking same. Soooo, try again maybe, but this time try to make a factual statement. Because, I can back my claim with science.
ROFLMAO!
"Scientific racism" is not a science, Clyde - did you forget that "Jewish" is not a "race?"
European Jewish people are native to Europe. African Jewish people are native to Africa. To suggest they aren't is about as antisemitic as antisemitism gets.
So... again - what does it feel like to play kapo for the very people who invented antisemitism? You know... the very same people whose "race science" you have so obviously bought into?
You're a fucking disgrace of a human being.
How do you manage to shit on finding the lost tribes of Israel? We can prove that the lemba tribe in Africa came from Israel, they were kicked out by the ancestors of the Palestinians, we can prove the European Jews came from Israel, they were kicked out of Israel by the Romans.
We found our fucking family, after all the colonizers and genocides and you're trying to shit on that. You're objectively an asshole and can fuck yourself.
This is scientifically proven that we are a family. And you're trying to take that from us, you're not the first that has tried, but fuck yourself.
Again... don't project your right-wing self-hatred onto me, right-winger. You are the one apologizing for a white supremacist settler-colonialist state - not me.
You can't prove squat.
Again... “scientific racism” is not a science, Clyde - did you forget that “Jewish” is not a “race?”
ROFLMAO!
How can I be "taking away" that which your precious little white supremacist settler-colonialist state is actively throwing away?
Oh, bother... a white supremacist settler-colonialist state acting like... drumroll, please... a white supremacist settler-colonialist state.
Absolutely nobody could have foreseen this, eh Clyde?
I'm not the right wing asshole, you are.
I'm not apologizing for a white supremacist colonialist state, BECAUSE THAT DOESN'T EXIST YOU FUCKING RAGING RACIST ANTI SEMITIC PIECE OF SHIT ASSHOLE.
there, did I say it loud enough for you? You're the racist here.
You're fucking dumb. "Race" is a social concept, "DNA proven relationship" is a science backed fact. So you shit posting racist ass bullshit is irrelevant.
Stop being an anti semitic piece of shit, that's all anyone can ask.
Put out your tiki torch proud boy, your time is done.
Oh look... a fan of white supremacist settler-colonialism doesn't want to own being a fan of white supremacist settler-colonialism.
Yawn.
The belief that DNA "proves" any kind of real-world "relationship" is text-book "race science," right-winger.
Again... yawn.
Arabs were against Israel and also against having Britain & France controlling colonial assets in their countries. The USSR saw them as valuable allies in dismantling colonial empires to make way for expanding Soviet influence. Western alignment with Israel didn't fully materialize except with the context of the Cold War. It really doesn't have a whole lot to do with ideological concerns beyond the surface level. It's realpolitik. The USSR was even pro-Zionist for a hot minute when they thought the kibbutzim were going to take off.
Also, this...
... is fucking stupid. Jews have been returning to Zion for as long as there has been a diaspora.
...and here you manage to prove just one thing - that the only thing "complicating" any of this is the batshit fairy tale pro-Israeli propaganda that has been regurgitated for you for decades now. Even Israeli historians demolishes your absurd alt-history.
Want a choice quote from Israeli historian Anita Shapira?
Are you talking about Palestine? You know... the place that has always had large Jewish communities all throughout the middle-ages right up to 1949?
Is that the place you are referring to?
And where exactly do you think the Christian Zionists got their ideas?
Could it be Maimonides?
The days of the Messiah, however, is the time when rulership will return to Israel and that they will go back to the land of Israel and that this king will be very great, and the seat of his rulership will be in Zion (Jerusalem). His fame will grow and his mention will be among all of the nations, [even] more than King Shlomo. And all of the peoples will make peace with him and all of the lands will serve him, due to his great righteousness and due to the wonders that will come about though him. And anyone that comes against him, God, may He be elevated, will deliver into his hand. And all of the [relevant] verses in Scripture testify to his success and our success with him. And nothing about existence will change from what it is now, except that rulership will return to Israel.
Maimonides advocated that wise men, those who understood the words of the sages, would naturally establish this "rulership" in Israel. Of course he was commenting on the Mishnah which dates back to the second or third century CE. The Christian Zionists' reason for wishing for the Jews to return to Israel is to bring about the end/messianic times. This prophecy first appeared in Judaism.
If you want to get into the specifics of practical & poltical Zionism of the late 19th century, sure it was inspired by European nationalism. But if that's all it takes for something to be white supremacy, then I guess all the various forms of Arab and African nationalism are white supremacy, too. The political, financial, and logistical methods employed by modern Zionists in the establishment of Israel were reflections of the time in which it took place. Had the Holocaust not occurred, the aliyot of the late 19th and early 20th century likely would have fizzled out without significantly effecting the balance of power in the region, like all the aliyot prior.
Yes, lol. Keep up. The Jewish population waxed & waned over the centuries due to waves of expulsion and emigration, and aliyot.
Anyway, modern Zionism doesn't need to be smeared as "white supremacy"; it stands on its own as a terrible idea, that in its full realization requires violence against and the displacement & expulsion of the Palestinian people.
No. There is a lot of "return" mythologies you can name that is present in a lot of diaspora communities, but that doesn't mean you see Rastafarians perpetrating settler-colonialism in Ethiopia or the Irish making the case for violently retaking Dublin from... the Irish. You could, if you wanted, make a case for Liberia - but once again, Liberia is a result of a white supremacist urge to get rid of a hated other by displacing said "other" "back where they came from..." which, now that we're talking about it, most certainly does have parallels with Christian Zionism's core antisemitism.
And who were Arab and African nationalists supposed to be white supremacist to? Whiteness defines itself by that which it is not... African nationalism is still, to this very day, beset by the racialized politics enforced onto it by white supremacist empires - Rwanda is merely one case of many - but the idea that sub-Saharan Africans have universally embraced the kind of comprehensive racialized caste system that European "race science" has normalized is ludicrous.
Maybe you need to tell the Israelis that.