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Discussion: For those in favor of easier respects/spec templates, and were in favor of fast travelling between dungeons, seeing the current implementation as meaningless obstacles. What of leveling? (forum.stellarcastle.net)

submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by [email protected] to c/diablo

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cross-posted from: https://forum.stellarcastle.net/post/6500

There's contention within the diablo 4 community right now seemingly by two camps of players: the ones that immerse into their characters and want more commitment into their choices, and the other camp who want to slay hordes of demons with little to obstruction or disruption to that gameplay loop.

I am curious as to what your thoughts on the obstacle leveling brings and what meaning it has that is separate from other obstacles that take up time, like the current respec implementation as well as the soon-to-be trivialized nightmare dungeon hopping?

For honesty, I've been completely against the push for trivializing these things as I am a type of player that likes their verisimilitude within the games they play, especially those with the "RPG" acronym somewhere in its genre, no matter how light.

I'm struggling to find why one is okay yet the others are not, and I'm looking for a healthy discussion.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

there are a couple things I see differently here. Making respeccing easier makes those choices have less meaning since you can change them so easily. This further diminishes the idea of "leveling" and "building" characters because without making those character-defining choices as you level, what is there to "build" when "building a character?". leveling also then becomes an arbitrary barrier that serves to just lock content behind. Which makes me wonder why we are okay with leveling if it's yet another time waster for content?

and I find it interesting that you don't like being locked into a role in a "roleplaying game." This is I think another thing where there just are two different perspectives. I'm building. a specific character who excels at certain things that others of my kind do not. I feel like the RPG portion of ARPG is getting lost in the genre.

yes you say we in real life can learn to do new things, but I don't think you can argue that we can do all things, even in a given "field" or "class.". and even if you did do all things, can you say you'd do them all well? I just don't agree that it's a reflection of real life that you can drop all of your learned skills to master another. it can often take decades to master a particular practice.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I am not sure why you think not being locked into your character choices means you're not building. Every time you change your skills you're building a character that can defeat the next wave of enemies you encounter. I guess I don't see why building has to mean you can't go back and pick up new skills.

I just don’t agree that it’s a reflection of real life that you can drop all of your learned skills to master another.

I think of it as you're now dedicating all of your time towards learning another skill and as a result you're getting rusty with what you've learned before. Your level can be considered a marker of your overall wisdom. You pick up many skills over the course of your life and the more time you dedicate to certain skills the better you are at them, and others get rusty. That's what I think of Diablo 4's skill tree. Every time you reconfigure it, you're practicing more with some skills and allowing others to languish.

Plus, in a game where people are gaining powers by doing rituals and summoning demons, it seems absolutely silly that you can't master new skills simply because you're already an expert at another.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I think that's fine as long as there's an actual obstacle to go through. Just being able to swap your skills around isn't reflective of learning new skills, it just feels like your character is less of a character and just a bag of abilities you choose to enable.