this post was submitted on 28 Oct 2023
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Baldur's Gate 3
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Baldur’s Gate 3 is a story-rich, party-based RPG set in the universe of Dungeons & Dragons, where your choices shape a tale of fellowship and betrayal, survival and sacrifice, and the lure of absolute power. (Website)
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Hasbro owns wizards of the coast, which is the owner of the D&D trademark.
Of the "sent the literal Pinkertons after a streamer" fame.
Tbf there's a good chance that story was massively exaggerated and overblown. Like, supposedly they didn't threaten him at all, and he willingly gave them the cards in exchange for something else. They were after whoever leaked the cards from their supply chain.
They said they were going to detain him and seize all of his cards, and make him prove he owns any of them.
That's a huge disruption to his life and business.
It wouldn't take a genius to be polite enough to be invited inside to talk about stuff, and slowly ramp up the severity enough to keep a guy listening and minimise confrontation.
It is completely overblown, and most people seem to be picturing the people from Red Dead Redemption and not a dead brand name that a Swedish security company bought to do collections under. Yes if you have sensitive possessions of a company they will send someone to get it, not trust you to mail it back to them.
The context that this was to prevent an NDA and happened within a month of someone else breaching an NDA with a leak that had a handful of noisy people declaring D&D dead is also pretty important, but never mentioned. It would never have even been a story without that context.
These kinds of stories tend to be overblown.
Particularly when a YouTuber posts a video about it afterwards. Although, one exception is Afroman and Will You Help Me Repair My Door.
also see https://youtu.be/9xxK5yyecRo?si=reXzGyDY3YHkmkjl
I don't know the story, but if it's something that wasn't supposed to be released, it's pretty much definitely stolen property. You're not entitled to keep stolen property because you think it's cool, and sending PIs to recover stolen property instead of the police is the nice route.
Showing property that belongs to someone else online and can't be acquired legitimately is absolutely grounds for an actual police search warrant.
It wasn’t stolen; it was sent to the streamer by mistake - they ordered something that had a very similar name and were sent the wrong item by the distributor. https://www.techdirt.com/2023/04/26/wizards-of-the-coast-sends-pinkerton-agency-to-person-that-bought-unreleased-magic-cards-in-error/
Exactly. However being in possession of stolen property is not itself a crime, you just don't have any right to keep it. If you paid for it, then your claim is against whoever you paid.
They could have got the police to reclaim the stolen property, however perhaps that might not have been as effective for them in investigating the leak. In any case, the stories about the Pinkertons threatening him might not be true, and he'd have every right to refuse them entry or even to speak to them. The fact that he did suggests he willingly complied.
Yeah he complied his family was in a house surrounded by a group of men that could have had guns.
Knowingly being in possession of stolen property is a crime.
If there's no legitimate source and a reasonable person would recognize that it's stolen by default, you can definitely go to jail.
Knowingly possessing stolen goods is a crime, however that law is about addressing the trade of stolen goods, ie fencing. Merely possessing the goods is unlikely to attract a criminal charge, let alone a conviction with jail time, as it will usually be impossible to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the buyer knew the goods were stolen. A reasonable person might think it is likely that they were stolen but would not know for sure.
Like I say, they were after the person who leaked it from the supply chain. If the police had been involved, they too would have been interested in the leaker, not the one-time buyer.
Edit: It can also vary by jurisdiction. Looking into it, there's an interesting bit in the wiki for this in the UK section, where they distinguish between suspicion, belief and knowledge:
However I don't think the US makes this distinction, as the US version of the law does not include "belief".
It's generally hard to prosecute because there are plausible other explanations for intent. You don't have any way of knowing a generic laptop is stolen vs used.
Having a unique item from a company you make money covering, that wasn't ever sold legitimately and you didn't acquire from any legitimate source, is absolutely something that could get to trial at minimum, if the company is pushing the DA to do so. You'd end up having to have a lawyer convince a jury that "I didn't know" is believable.
The fact that they chose to give the streamer a pass for cooperating doesn't mean that they couldn't have perfectly reasonably or successfully pursued charges. Choosing not to do so is more evidence of them choosing the nice way.
You probably didn't see my edit, which is pretty relevant :o)
US law requires knowledge of the goods being stolen, not mere belief. You don't have to convince the jury you didn't know, the prosecution has to convince the jury you did. That's a very high bar to meet, and while it could go to trial it almost certainly wouldn't, not unless they had solid evidence of his knowledge (eg, if he said they were stolen on his stream).
The fact that they chose to go through the Pinkertons more likely points to the fact that they knew they wouldn't have charges thrown about if they involved the police. The buyer would have been less likely to cooperate.
You don't have to see into their brain.
The US tends to use the reasonable person standard. If a reasonable person, with the information you have, would know that it's stolen, you knowingly possessed stolen goods.
Something that doesn't exist through legitimate channels, especially for a subject you portray yourself as knowledgeable of, is enough. You have to cast reasonable doubt with a plausible alternative explanation.
You're presenting generalised speculation as if what you're saying is certain. It would be nice if you could provide something that would back up your claim, like a similar case with a one-time buyer that proceeded to trial.
A reasonable person would not necessarily know the goods were stolen, even if they had knowledge of the industry. All the buyer would likely need to say is something like "the seller convinced me that this was an early release for select reviewers", and the only way to counter that would be for the prosecution to provide actual evidence proving their knowledge of the theft. "Legitimate channels" is not confined to retail.