this post was submitted on 26 Oct 2023
387 points (96.9% liked)

politics

19086 readers
4799 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Highlights: One of the defining features of the rise of American neofascism is violence. This is in no way surprising: violence is one of the primary tools that enemies of democracy use to impose their will, undermine institutions, and prevent the types of consensus-seeking that's foundational to a healthy democracy and society. Contrary to what right-wing leaders and their disinformation media would like to suggest, this violence is not on “both sides.” The data and other evidence show that political violence and extremism in the Age of Trump (and from the late 1980s to the present more generally) is a phenomenon almost exclusive to the right-wing and “conservative” movement.

National security experts and law enforcement are continuing to warn that right-wing political violence as seen on Jan. 6, in mass shootings and other acts of terrorism, hate crimes, and other such actions – up to an including the possibility of a sustained insurgency to remove President Biden and the Democrats from power – is the greatest threat to the country’s domestic safety and security.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] shalafi 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

you die in your own front door

Isn't that rather the point? And what's yours? Don't fight back when they come to take you to the train? You've attributed a lot of actions and ideas on me.

And this might really bake your noodle; How do you think the fascists might be held back? Make them not so bold?

Voting ain't working, and the right is consolidating power to take even that away from us. Young people and liberals are obviously lazy as fuck when it comes to pulling a lever in a voting both. Otherwise, we wouldn't be arguing all this. Do you disagree?

There was a horrifying video of jihadis running down the street after the Iranian people pulled off a "mini" rebellion last year. American liberals were all over social media talking about... whatever. And none of them had a clue that this sort of this isn't possible in America because the citizens are armed.

It's not that I would go Rambo shooting out my window, unless it came to brass tacks. It's that I have the option, and the brownshirts know that.

tl;dr An armed citizenry is a deterrence. And if deterrence isn't enough, shoot back. Or, get on the train with the fags and other "degenerates". (JK, that's never happened before and we in the US are too enlightened to allow it. /s)

[–] hdnsmbt 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Isn’t that rather the point?

Your point is dying a meaningless death in an imagined heroic act in an imagined fascist overthrow? Please excuse me for not arguing with that, I wouldn't know where to start, seeing our diametrically opposed views on the meaning of life in general.

And what’s yours?

Kids are being killed in schools which is bad. Having guns as easily accessible as they are now helps kids being killed in schools which is bad. Not having guns as easily accessible as they are now would be better.

Don’t fight back when they come to take you to the train?

Do fight back when the imaginary fascist overthrow takes place. Do not make guns easily accessible so someone can kill kids in schools. It's not that difficult of a concept, really.

How do you think the fascists might be held back? Make them not so bold?

How do you think the fascists might be held back? By pointing a useless stick at their army equipment? Grow up. You hold back fascist shit by not letting it take root. The US leaves systemic issues unsolved which benefits fascist shit. "Oh, but it's our evil politicians, don't yo-" Then go protest and don't stop until they do what you tell them to do. Other, allegedly less "free" and "great" countries have done it.

Do you disagree?

I don't disagree with the facts, I disagree with your deduction. Protesting and striking now is the way, not preparing for the "inevitable" fascist overthrow somewhere down the line while shrugging off the piles of dead kids.

There was a horrifying video of jihadis running down the street after the Iranian people pulled off a “mini” rebellion last year. American liberals were all over social media talking about… whatever. And none of them had a clue that this sort of this isn’t possible in America because the citizens are armed.

This sort of this isn't possible in the US because the police forces are equipped like armies.

It’s that I have the option, and the brownshirts know that.

Which is why they will come in bigger numbers and equipped with bigger guns. Come on, what would you do in their place? Imagine living in a fascist hellhole and finally the people voted in a left-wing government that is willing to clean up the country of actual fascists. Oh, but the fascists own private guns, you know! Some of them up to 40! Do you think there's a small possibility you might have a chance with unlimited money and resources at your disposal?

If you're scared of a fascist overthrow, act now. Don't watch more kids die just to keep up an illusion.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I know this is a weird way to look at it, but the meaning of that death manifests in the past.

It is before that death that, because it would involve danger to the attacker even if it’s death for the defender, the willingness to die has its effect.

I’m not trying to sound mystical or esoteric here. I’m just trying to use new language to describe the same concept because it just doesn’t get through for some reason.

Like deterrence is one kid saying “If you smash my xbox, I’ll smash yours”.

Smashing the second xbox doesn’t save the first xbox. Promising to smash the second xbox is what saves the first xbox. The second smashing happens after the first smashing and therefore cannot affect the first smashing since causality goes forward in time. The purpose of the second smashing is to keep, ie validate, the promise made before the first smashing.

It’s a weird, abstract thing. To me it kinda feels like imaginary numbers in math. Like they don’t exist but using them works on things that do exist.

There’s no causal arrow from the second smashing back to the first smashing, but doing your “math” as if the second smashing is a reality, like as if it “already” exists there in the future, changes the probability of the first smashing.

I keep going long-winded with this but what I’m really trying to say is, do you really not grok how “If you do this thing I’ll punish you for it” shapes behavior?

[–] hdnsmbt 1 points 1 year ago

I know what deterrence means. I'm telling you deterrence doesn't work if one side has access to unlimited amounts of Xboxes. They don't care if you smash their Xbox because they simply buy a new one and then they kill you anyway.