this post was submitted on 24 Oct 2023
568 points (94.7% liked)

politics

19098 readers
4642 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] kava -5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I support gay rights, trans rights, whatever you wanna call yourself rights.

But the 12+ million people living here illegally being promised immigration reform for decades, including by Biden, have it much harder than the gays and are continously ignored and lately the government has been increasingly hostile to them

Biden, the supposed reformer, even did a photoshoot at the border with border patrol agents to inaugurate the expansion of the wall he promised to halt construction of.

I grew up illegal. I was under DACA. I trusted Biden to do something, because he said he would. I realize now (I knew before but chose to believe) that it's all a scam. And the worst part is. The kicker is.. that I'm probably going to vote for him anyways.

This country is a cruel uncaring machine that systematically crushes any sliver of hope.

Reagan did more for illegals than any democrat ever did. Ronald fuckin Reagan. I'll give Obama credit for DACA. I assumed Biden would continue in those steps, but instead he's gone Full Trump.

As for Israel, what they're doing is genocide. If you read the facts and have any sliver of empathy or reason then you would see that. Biden knows. Trump knew. They don't care. Because we actually don't hold any humanitarian values. It's all secondary to money and power

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Immigration reform requires Congressional action, and I'm sure you know the state of Congress right now. I'm gonna take a wild guess that you're on the younger side, haven't been around for many presidential elections, and didn't understand that statements made during the campaign are essentially a glorified wishlist unless they're things that fall solely under executive authority. The fact of the matter is that no President has the power the unilaterally act on immigration.

And as a fun fact, that Reagan bill from 1986 got through Congress with more Democrats voting for it than Republicans. In fact, if you only look at Republican votes in the House, the bill would have been voted down.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/99-1986/h872

So the real question is, if Biden had the Congress of 1986 rather than the current one that's so dysfunctional we don't even have a Speaker in the House, do you really think that nothing would be happening?

I get that politics is depressing and deeply frustrating, and that change always happens way too slowly. But if you look at it and come away thinking that there's no meaningful difference between the parties, you're simply not paying attention.

For what it's personally worth, I'm in favor of largely unrestricted immigration and have also been frustrated with a lot of Biden's actions. But I can also understand that there's a level of political reality that has to be accepted. A lot of voters want some level of stronger border control. Tariffs are essentially a handout to domestic blue collar union workers which are vital to winning a presidential elections. It's all cynical and shitty, but you either accept the reality of the situation, or you don't and enjoy the consequences of empowering people who actually only care about money and personal power.

[–] Nightwingdragon 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I support gay rights, trans rights, whatever you wanna call yourself rights.

When you refer to the LGBT community as "whatever you wanna call yourself", your statement becomes less a support of gay rights and more of a variant of "I'm not a racist but......"

But the 12+ million people living here illegally being promised immigration reform for decades, including by Biden, have it much harder than the gays and are continously ignored and lately the government has been increasingly hostile to them

They are living here illegally. No shit the government has become hostile to them. Should they be handed coffee and donuts at the border?

Biden, the supposed reformer, even did a photoshoot at the border with border patrol agents to inaugurate the expansion of the wall he promised to halt construction of.

Should he offer to take selfies with the ones crossing illegally instead?

I grew up illegal. I was under DACA. I trusted Biden to do something, because he said he would. I realize now (I knew before but chose to believe) that it’s all a scam. And the worst part is. The kicker is… that I’m probably going to vote for him anyways.

Wait....wait....wait, what?

You were here illegally. You're here under DACA. As there's no path to citizenship for DACA immigrants, how the hell are you voting?

This country is a cruel uncaring machine that systematically crushes any sliver of hope.

You can feel free to return to whatever country you were born in. I understand you were not brought here through your own choice, but that doesn't mean the US government owes you a free ride, either.

Reagan did more for illegals than any democrat ever did. Ronald fuckin Reagan. I’ll give Obama credit for DACA. I assumed Biden would continue in those steps, but instead he’s gone Full Trump.

There are numerous issues with this statement, but I'll just sum it up by once again saying that the US government doesn't owe you a damn thing. You came here illegally. By your own admission, you're still here (technically) illegally. Heck, you're voting illegally. Stop acting as if the government owes you something for being here illegally.

As for Israel, what they’re doing is genocide. If you read the facts and have any sliver of empathy or reason then you would see that. Biden knows. Trump knew. They don’t care. Because we actually don’t hold any humanitarian values. It’s all secondary to money and power

Neither side was right. Hamas literally fucked around and found out. They killed, what, 1400 people and took 200+ hostages in an unprovoked attack. Did they think Israel was going to thank them for visiting? Israel is literally surrounded by countries who believe that it doesn't have the right to exist and that its citizens should be exterminated. They are the geopolitical equivalent of a cornered/wounded animal. Ever see how a cornered animal reacts when it feels threatened? It was always known that if Hamas or Hezbollah pulled a stunt like that, Israel was going to lash out. They attacked anyway, and now act like they're the victims because Israel retaliated.

No, I'm not a fan of how Israel retaliated. They continue to attack blind, with no regard for the difference between Hamas and civillians. They've killed thousands of civillians in the process. Their retaliation has clearly been disproportionate. They are just as in the wrong for their retaliation as Hamas was for attacking in the first place. But when you launch unprovoked attacks against a regional superpower that outclasses you by orders of magnitude and say that they don't have the right to exist, you can't be surprised when they go full blitzkrieg on your ass in response.

[–] kava 2 points 1 year ago

I'm a citizen now. I was illegal from 5-22

This country, especially specific states, wouldn't run without labor from illegals. Inflation would go up because Americans simply don't work as hard and demand more $. The people running this country don't actually want that to happen so they play a game where they're anti-illegal but don't make any significant moves to get rid of them.

They're a perfect population. A silent group that pays taxes, doesn't pull from welfare, commits much less crime than Americans, and isn't politically active.

That's why people like Trump will shout on and on about a wall when he actually knows the majority of illegals are visa overstays coming on planes. If ICE wanted to, they could deport every illegal tomorrow. I've seen the files from an immigration attorney. They have profiles of everyone.

As for Israel v Gaza. Your same argument can be made to justify Hamas's terror attack. Israel has been killing Palestinians for decades. Therefore in self defense they attack Israel and the dead civilians are an unnecessary evil to pay because the Palestinians have a right to exist.

I personally think that civilians don't deserve to die. Especially thousands of children. There are diplomatic solutions here.

Reality is though, Israel is the aggressor and doesn't want a diplomatic solution. The Hamas terror attack was appalling but if you look at the numbers, the number of dead Palestinian civilians dwarfs whatever Hamas did.

The Palestinians are simply not strong enough to break free on their own. They will continue to get slowly exterminated unless something changes. This is the logic behind Hamas's suicide attack. They either do something now or die.

this is the type of country we support? Russia bombed a hospital and killed 4 people the president is talking about war crimes this and collective punishment that. Putin even got tried in the ICC.

But when Israel does it the best he can do is say that Israel has a right to "self-defense" and give Netanyahu a big hug? Why do we bend over backwards and risk WW3 for such a country?