this post was submitted on 12 Oct 2023
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[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Urban fighting is pure nightmare fuel for all parties.

It'd probably be safer for the civilians, to open up refugee camps outside of the contested area, allow inspected movement,

That was never really on the table in Palestine. And especially less so now that there's 1200 dead Isreali's. They are not crossing into any lands held by the IDF without becoming prisoners.

The Egyptians have also refused to keep the border crossing open so fleeing to Egypt isn't an option either.

The pogroms have already started in response. There's nothing or noone that can stop this fight now. Sometimes the gears of history turn and crush those beneath it. And this time we're helping crush people beneath those gears. Its all fucked.

[–] FlyingSquid 19 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I wish people would realize that, while Egypt and Jordan are not as culpable as Israel when it comes to the Palestinian apartheid (and now genocide), they're culpable at a certain level themselves by not aiding Palestinians trying to flee Israeli violence or keeping them in their own refugee camps.

From what I can tell from my reading up, Palestinians were treated like shit by other Arab groups before Israel. They've never been especially high in the order of things. Israel is just treating them even worse than they've been treated before.

So while I'm glad there is condemnation of Israel, there needs to also be condemnation of Egypt and Jordan. They know they can allow Palestinians to resettle in their countries if those Palestinians so wish (not the best solution by any means) and they won't do it.

[–] Riccosuave 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I don't always agree with your comments, but this is an incredibly important point that needs to be phrased in exactly this way as part of the discussion.

Egypt and Jordan sticking Palestinians on a lower rung of the social cast and treating them like a backwater minority group is only adding what seems like intentional fuel to this fire, especially at this point. Sometimes externalized pressure from your neighbors doing the right thing is what it takes to force a rational resolution to a long standing crisis.

It seems to me that the international community would have A LOT less of an appetite for the bullshit Israel does if there were Palestinian refugee camps in Jordan & Egypt that became the humanitarian face of the issue. It would put a shit load of pressure on Israel to make concessions towards a long standing solution.

[–] assassin_aragorn 8 points 1 year ago

Egypt and Jordan did take in Palestinian refugees at one point in the past. What followed was civil strife in Egypt, and a civil war in Jordan where their king actually died. Similar thing happened in Lebanon and Kuwait.

By no means does this mean it's right for them to ignore Palestinian refugees, nor that the past dictates the future, nor that Palestinians are inherently violent. I just understand their reticence.