this post was submitted on 09 Oct 2023
249 points (94.6% liked)

World News

39009 readers
2764 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News [email protected]

Politics [email protected]

World Politics [email protected]


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] nandeEbisu 39 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

They've been living under an Israeli siege for over a decade and had a mature enough intelligence apparatus to plan a highly coordinated assault while living in a surveillance state.. If you don't think this wasn't a calculated informed attack you've got your head up your ass.

I'm not condoning indiscriminate killing and rape of civilians and taking hostages, I also don't condone the inhumane siege of Gaza that has been happening for decades. 50% of Gaza is under 18. That's not because they're popping out kids, its because you just don't survive that long in that kind of environment, those are also deaths. Not graphic ones that make headlines, but lives were still lost. Its incredibly hypocritical to assume Israel's shit don't stink in this situation either.

I'm also queasy when I read the coverage of the recent attacks by Hamas, I also haven't been living in a police state. Not saying this is the most effective way that they can achieve their objectives, but I can understand how someone growing up seeing violence, sickness and malnutrition for completely preventable reasons dehumanizes the people they see as being the cause of their situation and join or support an organization like Hamas.

[–] Dreamer 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Also, when Palestinians resist against Israel, I'm not sure many people are informed about the differences between what Israel's actions are and the narrative it gives out. An example would be found in this Haaretz article covering how Israel systematically hides evidence of Arab expulsion.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I do think that Israel should stop its colonization of the West Bank, cease the blockade, and work towards a two state solution. But my sympathy is with the Palestinian people. I have absolutely no sympathy for hamas after what they have done and they deserve what will happen next.

[–] BradleyUffner 9 points 1 year ago

But my sympathy is with the Palestinian people. I have absolutely no sympathy for hamas after what they have done and they deserve what will happen next.

The Israeli government no longer seems to care about the difference between the two.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

they deserve what will happen next.

Nothing will change for hamas. Do the Palestinians deserve what's happening now?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Israel is almost certainly going to overthrow Hamas which seems like something changing

[–] MeanEYE 3 points 1 year ago

There was a time when there was no wall, no blockade, and work towards two state solution. Do remember that Israelis lived inside of Gaza until 2005. Why do you think they raised the wall in west bank and left Gaza in 2005? They left them to self-govern and they elected Hamas and now you think removing walls is going to help solve the issue? What a naive way of thinking.

This is not "you are taking our land" issue, this is "every jew must die" issue to them.

[–] Davin 2 points 1 year ago

I have sympathy for the Palestinian and Israeli civilians that are being murdered by both sides. Since 2008, Israel has killed significantly more Palestinians than vice versa https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties, 6,000 Palestinian deaths to 300 Israeli deaths.

It's the "deserve" part of your comment that I'm having trouble with reconciling when the amount of deaths and violent oppression has been so unbalanced against Palestinians. Yeah, Hamas needs to face consequences, but that's not really what's happening or what's going to be happening. It's going to be civilians that will suffer the most and Hamas will be fine when it's all done.

It's not hard to see, as horrible as Hamas is, how they can get recruits and support for their regime and how this escalated to this point. I don't support what happened in any way, but I can see how things lead up to this.

And I've seen people say that Hamas fucked it up for Palestinians because now they lost the sympathy. Which is hard to not see as flawed when the sympathy hasn't helped Palestinians for over half a century of violent oppression.