this post was submitted on 10 Oct 2023
940 points (96.8% liked)
World News
32137 readers
1420 users here now
News from around the world!
Rules:
-
Please only post links to actual news sources, no tabloid sites, etc
-
No NSFW content
-
No hate speech, bigotry, propaganda, etc
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Haven’t surveys shown that a majority of Palestinians support Hamas?
Sure but you try being killed and kicked out of your homes. I'm sure you would not like the people who are doing it either. Israel has created this mess.
People forget Israel is the one with the power and creating this issue. If Israel actually backs off and treats Palestine as at least human, then I think (and hope) most people will see that Hamas needs to be destroyed as they are a terrorist group.
Isn't that exactly what Israel did when they left the Gaza strip in 2005? That's the thing that lead to Hamas taking over in the first place.
They did that, and terror attacks stopped. This basically marked the end of the second Intifada. Then they blockaded Gaza, and the terror attacks came back. Then there was a ceasefire in 2012, with one of the conditions the lifting of the blockade. That didn't happen, so the terror attacks came back, and we got the 2014 war. See the pattern here?
Didn’t that process of backing off continue until 2007, when the terrorist group Hamas took over and restarted the terror campaigns?
I mean if you live in a country controlled by a terrorist group that kills anyone who is not their side, and someone goes to your door and asks if you support them... What would you say?
It's easy to dismiss this issue by thinking they have the same freedom of speech as we do in the west, and they can have political opinions without any repercussion.
Same can be said about north Korea.
Let's hope the majority are forced into supporting terrorists as their leaders (that sounds so wrong), but let's not fool ourselves into believing that a significant number of them don't support Hamas.
The leader of Hamas is in year 18 of his 4 year term, and no one seems to have a problem with it.
No one alive seems to have a problem with it. They literally can't complain. Opposed and terrorised by Israel on one side, and Hamas on the other. Defying either is a death sentence.
yeah yeah yeah, and not all Germans were Nazis.
I mean yeah, not all Germans were Nazis....
Dude thinks he made a salient point
sounds like something a nazi would say.
In 1919, Germany and the Allied Powers signed the Treaty of Versailles. A major component of this treaty was Germany recognizing her role in WW1, and agreeing to make significant reparations, in the form of territory, money, and disarment.
In 1939, under Hitler's leadership, Germany invades Poland. Germany surrendered in 1945, and in 1947, the US began the Marshal plan, dumping a significant amount of money into Europe, with the 3rd largest benefactor being West Germany, receiving 11% of the total funding.
Empirically, caring about the wellbeing of the German people was a far more successful policy than punishing them.
Also, most of the Germans attempting to flee Nazi Germany were not Nazi's despite the fact that many countries (including the US) refused them entry out of feer of Nazis.
Not to say that what Hamas is doing is not bad. But under Nazi rule, Germany moved people by the literal overstuffed trainload to industrial scale death factories.
At Auschwitz alone, they had 4 full sized gas chambers, each capable of killing 2000 people at once with industrial efficiency. The bodies were then sent to one of the industrial scale cremotoria for disposal so there would be room to process the next batch.
yeah, and they didn't advertise it. They tried to hide it. Unlike Gaza posting fucking videos.
Calling over 2 million people animals is genocide rhetoric, full stop. Actually, it's borderline Holocaust denial as well, since SS divisions like the Dirlewanger Brigades did exactly that: kill as many civilians as they possibly could.
You have to keep in mind that the majority of people in Gaza are descendants of refugees who were driven out of their own homes, villages, and lands by force in 1948. The current people in Gaza live in ghetto-like conditions with 90% not having clean drinking water, only getting four hours of electricity a day, and are not even allowed to leave without permission from Egypt or Israel (and Israel generally takes years to approve these permits). As well, half of Gazans are children, with the median age in Gaza being 19. And this isn't even mentioning the West Bank's system of apartheid, mirroring in many ways the Bantustans in South Africa. Further, Israel is consistently in violation of international law for targeting civilian infrastructure and residential buildings in Gaza.
I decry Hamas and everyone even marginally defending their actions disgust me. However, constant and systemic oppression and occupation of Palestinian lands under violation of international law and the increasing pogroms of Palestinians in the West Bank must be brought into context, as well as the broader historical context of British and Ottoman imperialism.
Might makes right bullshit. I'm not even going to address your comparison to indigenous tribes in America (who also experienced a genocide), but in any case there are still people alive who remember having their lands dispossessed. And keep in mind that the majority of people in Gaza are essentially refugees from this exact dispossession, and the dispossession continues in the West Bank right now with illegal settlements. Modern Israel refuses to respect the internationally-recognized borders established by the victors of WWII, and Netanyahu himself has signaled many times that all Palestinian land is Israel, even though there are currently Palestinian majorities in many parts of those areas.
Also, they are not refusing to leave buildings, what in the absolute fuck are you talking about? Over 100,000 people have left their homes to shelter. They are often given less than a minutes warning, if they are even given a warning. I saved this quote from a couple of days ago:
They do not take pride in dying, Hamas does. The conflation between the two is frankly disgusting and appalling, especially when there haven't been elections since 2006 (and before you say that they won a majority, they didn't, they won a plurality with 44.45% of the vote and Fatah getting 41.45%). 70% of Gazans support a return to Palestinian Authority rule, even if a majority express some support for Hamas (https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/polls-show-majority-gazans-were-against-breaking-ceasefire-hamas-and-hezbollah). This isn't even mentioning that the reason that someone would support Hamas is directly linked to the conditions of dispossession and the present conditions which amount to an open-air prison.
And the fact that, as you say, "They cry about it occasionally but no one takes them seriously," is the problem.
So between Hamas and Fatah, 85% of Gaza voted for terrorists, fantastic point.
And Likud is a descendant of the Irgun paramilitary group, who objectively used terrorist tactics to achieve their goals, and that many in Netanyahu's current administration are by most measures fascist or at the very least far-right (and one of them Bezalel Smotrich, is an admitted fascist and homophobe).
How about you define terrorism for me though. Because Hamas and Fatah are in completely different worlds, not to mention that Fatah is the main party of the Palestinian Authority, the internationally recognized government of Palestine. Hamas is a radical Islamist and Jihadist group, while Fatah is a secular nationalist group. This isn't even to condone Fatah, which have essentially had a dictatorship under Mahmoud Abbas since 2005. But to compare them in any way to Hamas is insane and proves that you are not acting in good faith.
This isn't even to mention that I despise nationalism in all its forms. I realize that Israelis cannot be expected to go back home since their home is Israel, but there should be at the very least reparations to Palestinians and all West Bank settlements should be returned to Palestinians. Further, I believe a one-state solution with equal rights for all is the only way that this situation can ever be resolved.
But apparently you think it's better to dehumanize Gazans and Palestinians more broadly and advocate genocide than to ask tough questions about this situation that may not be so black and white
You are a disgusting human being
Maybe, and I'm on the more moderate side of things. Below me are the people calling for US military to get involved and want to start a war with Iran, below them is the Iranians of course, and WAY below them is Gaza.
Well based on the population growth in Gaza, the survivors seem to been doing quite well. Well, up until this past weekend.
If that was true millennials would be reproducing like rabbits.
They actually value martyring their women and children so that explains why they want to make many more of them. They cherish death like we cherish our life.
INDEED
after I posted that I realized I should have had a Teal'c gif.
I think elections showed Vladimir Putin won with >90% of the vote.
Kim Jong Un also seems to enjoy the support of his people.
Hamas is the only group in this world standing up for the Palestinian people, so I would support them too, we're I locked up in that open air prison, my family and friends being constantly murdered for profit.
From: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_the_State_of_Palestine
Hamas are terrorists and are only using Palestinians as pawns. Hamas give the fascists in the Israeli government the justification to commit their crimes.
Exactly this. The fact that people can't parse this out is insane to me.