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‘We can’t confuse Hamas with all Palestinians’: Spain says amid aid review (www.aljazeera.com)

submitted 11 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] KingCrimson 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Calling over 2 million people animals is genocide rhetoric, full stop. Actually, it's borderline Holocaust denial as well, since SS divisions like the Dirlewanger Brigades did exactly that: kill as many civilians as they possibly could.

You have to keep in mind that the majority of people in Gaza are descendants of refugees who were driven out of their own homes, villages, and lands by force in 1948. The current people in Gaza live in ghetto-like conditions with 90% not having clean drinking water, only getting four hours of electricity a day, and are not even allowed to leave without permission from Egypt or Israel (and Israel generally takes years to approve these permits). As well, half of Gazans are children, with the median age in Gaza being 19. And this isn't even mentioning the West Bank's system of apartheid, mirroring in many ways the Bantustans in South Africa. Further, Israel is consistently in violation of international law for targeting civilian infrastructure and residential buildings in Gaza.

I decry Hamas and everyone even marginally defending their actions disgust me. However, constant and systemic oppression and occupation of Palestinian lands under violation of international law and the increasing pogroms of Palestinians in the West Bank must be brought into context, as well as the broader historical context of British and Ottoman imperialism.

[+] luckyhunter 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

[removed by mod]

[–] KingCrimson 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Might makes right bullshit. I'm not even going to address your comparison to indigenous tribes in America (who also experienced a genocide), but in any case there are still people alive who remember having their lands dispossessed. And keep in mind that the majority of people in Gaza are essentially refugees from this exact dispossession, and the dispossession continues in the West Bank right now with illegal settlements. Modern Israel refuses to respect the internationally-recognized borders established by the victors of WWII, and Netanyahu himself has signaled many times that all Palestinian land is Israel, even though there are currently Palestinian majorities in many parts of those areas.

Also, they are not refusing to leave buildings, what in the absolute fuck are you talking about? Over 100,000 people have left their homes to shelter. They are often given less than a minutes warning, if they are even given a warning. I saved this quote from a couple of days ago:

Another resident, Abu Mohammad Hassounah, said his brother lost two of his children in the attacks.

“The Israeli army… told one of our neighbours that the building has to be evacuated. Where should they go? They should go to the sea. People started running and suddenly we heard an explosion,” he said. “My brother’s two children were standing in the doorway. They were killed.”

They do not take pride in dying, Hamas does. The conflation between the two is frankly disgusting and appalling, especially when there haven't been elections since 2006 (and before you say that they won a majority, they didn't, they won a plurality with 44.45% of the vote and Fatah getting 41.45%). 70% of Gazans support a return to Palestinian Authority rule, even if a majority express some support for Hamas (https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/polls-show-majority-gazans-were-against-breaking-ceasefire-hamas-and-hezbollah). This isn't even mentioning that the reason that someone would support Hamas is directly linked to the conditions of dispossession and the present conditions which amount to an open-air prison.

And the fact that, as you say, "They cry about it occasionally but no one takes them seriously," is the problem.

[–] luckyhunter 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

So between Hamas and Fatah, 85% of Gaza voted for terrorists, fantastic point.

[–] KingCrimson 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

And Likud is a descendant of the Irgun paramilitary group, who objectively used terrorist tactics to achieve their goals, and that many in Netanyahu's current administration are by most measures fascist or at the very least far-right (and one of them Bezalel Smotrich, is an admitted fascist and homophobe).

How about you define terrorism for me though. Because Hamas and Fatah are in completely different worlds, not to mention that Fatah is the main party of the Palestinian Authority, the internationally recognized government of Palestine. Hamas is a radical Islamist and Jihadist group, while Fatah is a secular nationalist group. This isn't even to condone Fatah, which have essentially had a dictatorship under Mahmoud Abbas since 2005. But to compare them in any way to Hamas is insane and proves that you are not acting in good faith.

This isn't even to mention that I despise nationalism in all its forms. I realize that Israelis cannot be expected to go back home since their home is Israel, but there should be at the very least reparations to Palestinians and all West Bank settlements should be returned to Palestinians. Further, I believe a one-state solution with equal rights for all is the only way that this situation can ever be resolved.

But apparently you think it's better to dehumanize Gazans and Palestinians more broadly and advocate genocide than to ask tough questions about this situation that may not be so black and white