161
this post was submitted on 22 Jun 2023
161 points (98.2% liked)
Star Trek Social Club
10571 readers
109 users here now
r/startrek: The Next Generation
Star Trek news and discussion. No slash fic...
Maybe a little slash fic.
New to Star Trek and wondering where to start?
Rules
1 Be constructive
All posts/comments must be thoughtful and balanced.
2 Be welcoming
It is important that everyone from newbies to OG Trekkers feel welcome, no matter their gender, sexual orientation, religion or race.
3 Be truthful
All posts/comments must be factually accurate and verifiable. We are not a place for gossip, rumors, or manipulative or misleading content.
4 Be nice
If a polite way cannot be found to phrase what it is you want to say, don't say anything at all. Insulting or disparaging remarks about any human being are expressly not allowed.
5 Spoilers
Utilize the spoiler system for any and all spoilers relating to the most recently-aired episode. There is no formal spoiler protection for episodes/films after they have been available for approximately one week.
6 Keep on-topic
All busmittions must be directly about the Star Trek franchise (the shows, movies, books, etc.). Off-topic discussions are welcome at c/Quarks.
7 Meta
Questions and concerns about moderator actions should be brought forward via DM.
Upcoming Episodes
| Date | Episode | Title |
|---|---|---|
| 11-28 | LD 5x07 | "Fully Dilated" |
| 12-05 | LD 5x08 | "Upper Decks" |
| 12-12 | LD 5x09 | "Fissure Quest" |
| 12-19 | LD 5x10 | "The New Next Generation" |
| 01-24 | Film | "Section 31" |
In Production
Strange New Worlds (TBA)
Section 31 (2025-01-24)
Starfleet Academy (TBA)
In Development
Untitled comedy series
Wondering where to stream a series? Check here.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
What a beautiful episode. The message was great and it wasn't ambiguous enough for people to really misinterpret or miss it while still remaining an indirect allegory for current times. The allegory was clearly about either homosexuality or undocumented immigrants and I appreciate that people from either group can likely relate to this episode. As a gay guy I have to say I definitely did.
Also, the scene with Spock's "outburst" was hilarious and I loved seeing the (on the surface) emotionless Spock once again.
Overall I loved the episode and I'm very glad to see one I love after personally disliking the previous one.
The allegory was trans people. Hence all the talk of needing to 'pass' to be accepted and the wonderful lil touch of Unas child cast being the colours of the Trans flag
It is not unlikely that this is the allegory they had in mind primarily, but so much of the bigotry and hatred depicted applied to gays, blacks, jews, women and probably more groups, too.
We're rhyming history, every generation we're trying to overcome prejudice, oppression and hatred against a new minority, only for some to conjure up a new distinguishing feature to define a minroty to be ostracized. It feels like treading water sometimes, can't we just cut through the bullshit in one go, but no, we have to go through all the steps, while some new group (or a subgroup of a previous group) has to endure all the pain this brings. Sometimes it feels like we're not really getting better. But maybe we are. But it's still too slow, it still repeats itself, and nowadays we might experience multiple such cycles in our lifetime, when at some point it took generations to get that kind of progress?
Ah, I'd missed that detail. I was on the fence about whether or not it was a trans allegory because it didn't initially feel like there were as many similarities in her story to being trans as there was to homosexuality and being an undocumented immigrant but upon further consideration I have to agree. Though it does seem to me like it is also about those other groups I mentioned. I suppose it's a bit of a catch-all (which worked great).
The way Illyrians were segregated into Illyrian and non-Illyrian cities except for people who could pass echoes the Jim Crow era of US history, with black people being segregated and some of them trying to pass for white.
The refusal of service to those who were found to be Illyrian is like antisemitic attitudes in pre-war Nazi Germany, or the refusal of service to homosexuals. Most of what happened can be compared to any persecuted minority, racial or sexual.
That’s the beauty of a good metaphor. And the ugly universality of bigotry.
I don't know how well that metaphor works since Illyrians are aliens. The Federation is already full of aliens with biology and abilities different than humans. So what if Illyrians have modifications that make them different than humans? Vulcans have two sets of eyelids and are adapted to live in harsh deserts humans can't survive in. They're also telepathic, three times stronger, and have perfect memory.
Does that mean the Federation is a segregated society between all different races? If they split cities between Illyrians and non-Illyrians, wouldn't they also be splitting cities between Andorians, Vulcans, Tellarties, etc.?
But this was looking at a group of people that had been othered, while the federation had accepted race they othered Illyrians. So it does bring in 50s America or South Africa due to that othering that was alive at those times and still is (BLM being needed). It does also include the modern othering that is going on now so absolutly it speaks to the trans community, but all the same arguments apply to others (one of the the reasons I despise LGBdroptheT is as a group that was othered, a minority of the LGB minority now attempts to join the majority so they can other Trans.)
Now I can just be dismissed as woke
But the Federation has no history with the Illyrians. The Illyrians weren't forced to live in Federation society. Their ancestors weren't enslaved by the Federation. Their planets weren't conquered by the Federation. As far as we know, they're not refugees who had to flee into Federation space.
It would be different if Illyrians had always been a group within the Federation. But they chose to go to the Federation with full knowledge of the Federation's laws. They have the choice to reject Federation membership if they wanted.
@kingofmadcows
@Jon-H558
Not being citizens of the Federation does not allow Federation citizens to harass the Illyrians nor to threaten them.
And since the Federation and also the Star Fleet have an ideal of tolerance, IMHO it was a wise decision to ban augmentation (against the background of the Eugenic Wars) but to judge wisely if a single person really is a threat or not.
Actually, we shouldn't be tolerant of eugenicists. The writers did an awful thing making it seem like we should feel bad that eugenicists are being marginalized for choosing to practice eugenics. There is no neutral or positive eugenics and it's irresponsible to act like there could be
I don't think they made the case that banning augmentation made sense just because there were some augments historically that were megalomaniac war lords. One thing that's always bothered me since I listened to Mission Log on TOS was how Star Trek was so sure that everyone always had to do things "the hard way" and always had to be striving to be more. The anti android, anti augment, anti too much automation all ties back to this in some way I think. But of course - this isn't really justified very well.
There were also parts of it that could easily be interpreted as Jim Crow era politics. Passing was a thing for Blacks as well. Splitting into two different cities reminded me of both redlining and "separate but equal." Of course, history repeats itself, and this allegory could also be applied to Jews, Native Americans, and any other persecuted minority, including gay and trans people. Una's whole situation could pretty easily be mapped onto a "don't ask, don't tell" situation as well.
I agree. It could also be read as an allegory for undocumented people - her family's fear of going to a hospital, for me, echoed the fear that many undocumented people feel around seeking help from any organization that might be affiliated with the government
Splitting into separate cities is way more reminiscent of ghettos, which is extremely dark. I don't think the show quite grapples with how monstrous this actually is, ignoring my concerns about the gene modification stuff as a metaphor, if we take it on face value as a signifier of marginalization this is not some cultural bias the Federation needs to work through, what's described is borderline genocidal.
I don't think Spock was emotionless. For one, an "outburst" is emotional. That he noticed it just means he's aware of it and used to not do it. Then, whenever he spoke of Una on the trial was super emotional. Praising her is because he likes her, not because it is logical (in the setting).
This is how the really great sci-fi allegories work. It's not just transplanting a real life situation into outer space, it's coming up with an outer space situation that is a sufficiently rich text and rings sufficiently true that people can see parallels to real life situations in it.