this post was submitted on 30 Sep 2023
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As always, the problem with commuter trains is the last mile. If you work in the city, there is probably some form of bus or subway, but if you work in an unwalkable suburb, you'll need an Uber for that last mile which cuts into the benefit.
We shouldn't be building unwalkable suburbs
We already did.
And continue to do so, that is what should get stopped.
So we should continue catering to their needs, thereby encouraging the construction of more unwalkable suburbs?
There are a lot of things we shouldn't do that we already did.
that's not a problem with trains it's a problem with unsustainable land use
Yeah lol
"Nobody builds suburbs you can walk in without rolling an ankle or getting hit by a car" "Yeah man that's the fucking trains fault"
Agreed, but it still an obstacle to wider adoption of trains.
@themeatbridge @sexy_peach Commuter driving has the same 'last mile' problem, but it's parking.
The photo doesn't include the $250 million worth of carparks for those 10,000 cars that has to exist at the other end of the highway.
The problem is the unwalkable suburb that doesn't make any sense. It never made sense either.
It's not only bad for commuting. It's a mess for groundwater, pollution of all type (noise, microplastics, air, etc.) It has an impact on the wildlife including reproduction, on plants, etc.
It's just a bad use of space? No, it's bad socially by isolating people. It creates urban traps. I will stop here otherwise I will continue on the fact it's a myth created by the capital...
Or just have a parking lot/garage, or bike the last mile...
My nearest bus stop is four miles away and I would definitely die if I tried to ride a bike there. These roads are crazy dangerous.
The whole point of this sub is advocating for changing that and getting rid of car centric development.
Right, but it's like a support group for depression that provides advice like "have you tried not being sad?"
You can't fix car-centric development by pointing out all the ways in which the world would be better if everything were different. You need to have a plan, a pathway from point A to point B, and point B needs to be accessible from point A. Anything less is just ineffectual whining.
An easy improvement would be protected bike lanes along those roads
To be sure, that would be a quality of life improvement, but it wouldn't actually solve the problem where I live. It's too hilly and we have too many rainy and snowy days to reliably commute via bike. I love the nearby bike trails, and my neighborhood is great for taking the kids for a ride. But a two hour ride over a mountain for a 9 AM office meeting is a non-starter.
dude if people can find the money for cars they can absolutely find the money for an e-bike. the "but hills" argument died like at least 5 if not 10+ years ago.
I can't fit two kids and a dog into an ebike. I can't even take that on the highway, or use it if it rains. So I need a car, and an ebike is a luxury.
@themeatbridge @Swedneck most families will find it hard to do without a car, but then most families (at least where I live) have more than 1 car. Rather than being a luxury the 1 car + N e-bikes setup is cheaper and often more convenient for local trips, which tends to be quite a significant proportion. We access school, library, pool, shops, doctors, cinemas, our workplaces etc via e-bike. With kids. Sometimes in the rain. Sometimes with a dog.
How do you get kids and a dog on an ebike?
The library is close, but up a treacherous windy road with no room for bikes and cars that drive too fast. We have walked there, but we'll usually drive to rhe nearby park and then walk.
None of the other locations you mentioned are accessible via bike, even e-bike, in less than an hour ride time. Do you really make sick kids pedal a bike to the doctor?
@themeatbridge one of our bikes seats driver + 2 kids (long tail cargo). Doggo has a trailer, though if we’re riding as a family that’s usually towed by other bike. The kids like prefer the bike to the car, so I don’t have to make them do anything.
Okay, maybe it won't help you, but there sure are people who don't commute 30+km each way and could use some part of the bike lane. Also, ebikes exist
Weather and hills really are not the main issue, I live in Switzerland. We have plenty of hills and shitty weather ;)
surely you can bike 2 miles in the burbs? One of the upsides of suburbs being so painfully sprawly is that barely anyone lives there, so you shouldn't have a tremendous amount of traffic on those 2 miles to the train station.
And even if you'd fear for your life biking there now, it's not like you need to build bike paths along every little residential street to fix it, start with the largest most high-traffic roads and build your way down until people feel safe biking to the train station.
Sure, but then you have to carry your bike with you on the train. There is no workable solution to suburbia that doesn't involve cars because it was designed and built around them. Unfortunately, they're now home to tens of millions of people, and any quick solution would most likely end up hurting a lot of them.
Bike parking at the train stations. You bike to the train station, lock the bike up, take the train, take the second bike from the destination train station, bike to the office. See videos on how the Dutch do it. Even with multiple bikes it's incredibly cheap in terms of money as well as climate impact compared to even the cheapest cars.
Lol you could easily buy matching ebikes for less than the price of a half way reliable car these days
just park the bike???
y'all keep inventing problems that don't exist.
Actually, you can leave a bike at the bike garage near the station or rent one on a monthly basis. That's what they do in Japan.
Well, in the Netherlands and at least some other EU countries most train stations have a bike rental system that works by just using a card to unlock the bike for a couple of Euros for 24 hours. So there is a possible solution.
Many people here use that system. It's also possible to buy a (second-hand) bike and park it at the station where you need it, if you'd like.
Edit: Didn't see the post below.. but exactly that.
I agree carrying the bike on the train is a problem, but there are a solutions like e-scooters and bikeshare.
not quite, suburbs are more dangerous for bikes because cars are used to wide smooth roads and do not look for bikes.
Where I live, the train station is smack in the middle of all the big employers!!
There just isn't actual service to the station....
Why did it become unwalkable?
I guess you could choose to live closer to a station and work closer to a station. That's how most cities worldwide ever got to be cities. The train tracks were made before the cities.
The last mile problem is a misunderstanding of how cities change when public transport is available. "Build it and they'll come" has been proven over and over again.
Housing newr public transit is unattainably expensive, and employers have left the cities because "everyone has a car."
The last mile problem is conveniently ignored by public transit advocates because there is no proper solution. Build what and where? Proven where? Who will come? I support the concept, and agree with the underlying benefits, but the solutions offered are unrealistic and not persuasive. I am informed on the subject and sympathetic to the cause. If you don't have an answer, you can't hide it with a condescending hand-wave.
Look at Tokyo. They build the extremely expensive subway system long before it was needed and made it run efficiently on time. It's now the worlds largest city.
I live in Denmark, quite close to a station. My office is quite close to another station. Even then, car saves me an hour each way each day. That's a lot of time!
Also a good point. Reducing the number of cars on the road makes driving more attractive because the commute time is both faster and more flexible. Someone like you needs an incentive to ride the train beyond "the greater good." That's not a criticism of you, that's a failure of society to place adequate emphasis on making the greater good a priority. People are necessarily myopic when it comes to day to day decisions.
Even if the time was equal, the costs associated with public transit is insane here. It can't compete with cars in neither time, flexibility, money, comfort.
It'd make it completely impossible for me to keep my family life functioning and have an adequate job.