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Went from "vaping is 95% less harmful than smoking" to "ban it, think of the children" in only 5 years...
How much did the reversal cost Phillip Morris and RJR, do you suppose?
I mean this is specifically about disposable vapes, which never should have become a thing. They're possibly the most wasteful disposable item we've ever come up with.
It does seem like loads of kids vape these days, and rather openly as well.
Disposable vapes should be banned because of the waste, and they should do the blank packaging approach for vapes/vape juice.
Just because it’s better than smoking doesn’t mean it’s good, and nobody really knows the long term health effects.
We obviously know there are adverse long term effects, because you know, we're making the shit illegal all over the place...
Long term effects are a lack of yellow shit all over all your stuff and losses in tobacco tax and settlement revenue...
@li10 @aelwero (do we not have long term data on use of nicotine by inhalation? )
Not exclusively. Nicotine inhalation traditionally has been in combination with the rest of the chemicals and tar in cigarettes.
Personally... yes? I know some vapers who have been around in the industry for almost 20 years. I've heard reports around x-rays of older vapers coming out nearly the same as a nonsmoker.
The real enemy of nicotine inhalation seems to have more to do with what carries it rather than the nicotine itself.
There are absolutely cardiovascular impacts of chronic nicotine use that are independent of any lung issues you'd have from inhalation. That would be true of any drug, and we're well acquainted with the dangers of PAD and increased heart attack and strokes from nicotine use. It's a vasoconstrictor so that makes sense.
@roguetrick @thehatfox @aelwero @li10 @BlinkerFluid
Well, Peripheral arterial disease isn't, i think, from vasospasm.
And the effects you point to seem to be acute, rather than chronic.
The magnitude and frequency of effects are significant.
@roguetrick @thehatfox @aelwero @li10 @BlinkerFluid
If I were looking for subtle trouble, I'd look at the brain, which might be influenced in its development by a psychoactive chemical in childhood.
And at the wetware that runs on it.
Not at the chassis.
https://www.verywellhealth.com/does-dip-cause-cancer-5089126
That was a fun read. How does it pertain to inhalation of nicotine via propelyne glycol and vegetable glycerin?
Oh, I actually thought I deleted this comment since I realized I didn't really know what I was talking about. But since it's here, and you took the time to read it; The question that went through my mind is "okay, I know that there's more to vaping/smoking than just nicotine, but what about chewing tabbaco? Isn't that nicotine that harms you without the additives from smoking/vaping?
I started with that article, but got lazy and didn't want to look into it further. Sorry for the confusion.
Chewing tobacco would also contain the carcinogens of tobacco resting in your mouth, causing cancer generally wherever it sits. The tobacco is still the delivery system for the nicotine. In the case of some snus, some are tobacco free, and are simply nicotine pouches that have soaked flavor and nicotine into them. Nicotine, like caffeine, vanillin, THC, can be extracted into its pure form from tobacco, removed from tobacco entirely and delivered in safer methods. This is the mindset behind vaping.
They talked about vaping as a concept. Like an RTA tank attached to a box mod. These single use vapes ruined the good rep of ecigs
I'm still rocking a $15 kato hammer clone I bought in 2014... "Box mod" made me laugh a little, I remember the MVP being the new hotness because it wasn't round :)
My first vape ever was a joye e-roll. I would absolutely not have switched over as easily as I did if the two options were convenient little cigarettes or a big honking 18650 mod. E-roll wasn't exactly a disposable, but that tiny little form factor was a big deal... a really big deal... it's what allowed me to switch.
Which is all to say that I have zero interest in disposables, same way I have zero interest in training wheels on a bicycle, but they aren't entirely without value.
Not much considering they've basically dipped toes into vaping rather than entire legs.
Most of the vaping industry is independent companies removed from the likes of the usual tobacco figureheads and single-use Vuse and Juul vapes(their brands) were fizzled out years ago.
PM and RJR do have their noses invested in some of those smaller companies, even Altria owned a chunk of Avail Vapor before they went to shit in the late 2010's.
but their investors tend to be more cautious than the "black market" or smaller vape industry of juice bottles, single-use vapes and box mods, and they don't touch Delta 8/10 vapes with a 39.5' pole.
Vaping may be a good alternative for a smoker. Some people find them a useful aid in quitting as it's easier to slowly reduce nicotine content.
It's is not contradictory to say vapes are bad. They can be better than cigarettes, but this doesn't make them good.
Vapes are highly palatable. This reduces a barrier to developing a nicotine addiction. So there genuine concern when it comes to young people developing nicotine addictions.
However, the motivation for this ban is due to the waste produced by disposable vapes. The early vapes were reusable so this wasn't an issue. These disposable vapes are responsible for alot of lithium batteries being irresponsibility disposed in the streets.
Nicotine on it's own isn't particularly addictive. It only becomes highly addictive when combined with the MAO inhibitors found in tobacco, primarily harman and norharman.
Some sources disagree with your claim.
Mayo Clinic
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/nicotine-dependence/symptoms-causes/syc-20351584
Centre for Addition and Public Health
https://www.camh.ca/en/health-info/mental-illness-and-addiction-index/nicotine-dependence
John Hopkins
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-prevention/5-truths-you-need-to-know-about-vaping
I'm intrigued, got any sources for this claim?
I searched for "nicotine addiction" and found a number of links to reputable bodies. I have put some of them above.
Monoamine Oxidase Inhibition Dramatically Increases the Motivation to Self-Administer Nicotine in Rats
Monoamine oxidase inhibition in cigarette smokers: From preclinical studies to tobacco product regulation
Effects of Monoamine Oxidase Inhibition on the Reinforcing Properties of Low-Dose Nicotine
Biologically Active Compounds Present in Tobacco Smoke: Potential Interactions Between Smoking and Mental Health
Don't know how many times this keeps having to be said but nicotine is not the part of smoking that is addictive, it's the habit. Nicotine is as addictive as caffeine.
The habit of biting my nails is why I haven't been able to stop for nearly 30 years, nothing else.
It's why pipe and cigar smokers don't chain smoke... because nicotine isn't there to hold them to it.
I agree, ban single use vapes, but acting like kids get addicted to vaping because of nicotine is bullshit. They do it because they think it's cool, just like they did for cigarettes.