this post was submitted on 22 Aug 2023
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The idea is to minimise the power imbalance to prevent individuals from being able to act on their own interests to the detriment of others, while changing incentive structures to minimise the benefit of doing so.
The government can intervene (and has done so historically) to crack up monopolies. By failing to do so in an economic system where economic power is tantamount to political power, we're signing the execution order for democracy. Look at the political influence that the likes of Musk, Bezos, and Gates already hold. It spits on the face of democracy - a concept that I happen to value. This is a problem with a simple set of solutions.
The path we're on only leads to worse lives for all of us - lower wages (they'll only avoid slavery as long as the government stops them - look at Western companies operations in developing countries), less competition, higher prices, less social mobility, the elimination of the concept of meritocracy, escalating tragedy of the commons... We can and should do better.
The greatest predictor of corruption, as with most crime, is inequality. Removing massive inequality eliminates the means to fund corruption, while a fairer allocation of resources disincentives it (though I'd also support strong penalties for engaging in it).
Western companies operate overseas because they're financially incentivised to do so - this is largely due to cheap labour with minimal protections (slaves more frequently than there should be), but also due to factors like proximity to raw materials. The fact that they would move to America in a heartbeat isn't exactly a selling point - it's just more evidence of the harm done by capitalism, and an argument for worker enfranchisement. The long, well documented history of the CIA overthrowing governments to install regimes more favourable to US commercial interests doesn't exactly help this point either.
The free market doesn't self regulate - it naturally collapses into monopolies, and all the associated suffering, graft, and market failure. The corruption is an example of the failure of these companies to self regulate as they work to bypass existing regulation. Regulators regulate companies chase profit - no matter what.. We should empower the regulators to stop the worst tendencies of companies operating under the profit motive. Again, look to western countries operating in the developing world for all the evidence you need of this - nestle is a great, though far from unique case study - abhorrent labour practices, environmental vandalism, political fuckery, and predatory marketing in particular.
This brings me to ask - why would you cheer for our political democracy to be choked out by a lack of economic democracy? Why would you not want democracy in your workplace rather than having the fruits of your labour leeched away by unaccountable, unproductive, uninformed owners?
Then how do you expect corporations to self-regulate? This looks an awful lot like doublethink to me. I suspect it's also why you've chosen to run from my questions. I'll need you to come to the table if you expect me to continue to answer your questions.
Can you clarify what ladder would be pulled up under communism?
What harmful behaviour would we be fighting against following the abolition of the commodity form?
Completely ahistorical take. Companies don't need the government to commit violence, and without the counterweight of the threat of government violence, they're near guaranteed to commit that violence if it's the most profitable decision. Look at corporate behaviour in the absence of regulation.
The solution to this is to remove the economic/political power of the companies, implement strict anti-corruption legislation, minimising the means and motivation for companies to sway politicians, and shore up our democracy, not hand the reins of power to corporations that care about nothing but profit. The issue is that companies are buying politicians to skirt regulation and minimise their influence... And your solution is to eliminate the regulation and let companies do as they please?
You've vaguely gestured toward potential issues you can't articulate, said that companies self-regulate rather than regulators, and propose that in response to corporations behaving badly after they pay politicians to step away, we should make the government step away in the hope (against all evidence to the contrary, basic economic principles, and basic common sense) so that the corporations, motivated by nothing but profit will magically develop ethics? This is incoherent - get it together, my dude.
Sorry - again, this is completely ahistorical.
Self-regulation - go look up Pullman, the Nestlé's baby formula scandal, or the actions of any company immediately after they get the deregulation they've been lobbying for. While regulation is absolutely anti-competirive in some instances (looking at you, YouTube), there's a reason most companies lobbying spend billions advocating for deregulation not more regulation.
Workers vs boards. What portion of the population are workers, what portion hold board seats? Which helps the vast majority of the population, all the productive capacity, and almost all the consumption in the economy, and which area a drain on all of that, centralising wealth and power into a set of unelected oligarchs? What higher price are you going to seek in a decommodified economy?
Freedom - freedom from someone telling you what to do is great and all, but I'd rather the freedom to live the way you want, to not be coerced into wage slavery at that of homelessness, starvation and death. We can absolutely achieve this if we shift our priorities from legislating protection shareholder profits to protecting the basic needs of people. After your previous line of inquiry, I have to ask - how do you stop politicians from bringing back policy you don't like? I don't see how it's possible without shoring up our democracy in unison, which you're passionately advocating against.
Regulation is by no means a necessary component in a monopoly, and it tends to be the only reliable way to break them - which is why antitrust laws exist. Outside that, pick any industry with a high capital cost, assume someone had first mover advantage - Likely monopoly - just use economies of scale and predatory pricing to drive either your infant competitors, or those mired in debt from the capital cost of rapid scaling out of business, or acquire them. Natural monopolies like power and water transmission and rail are great examples of this. Regulation is needed to keep them from exploiting their monopoly - not to kill competition.
In my country, we have a supermarket duopoly - and the government has had to intervene several times to stop collusion. They're both massively vertically integrated, and diversified. Want to enter the market? You won't be buying from any of the farms or manufacturers they own. Want to buy from anyone else? Assuming they're not contractually locked up, they have the market power to dictate the price you pay from their suppliers (which is just about everyone). Unless you can open hundreds of supermarkets overnight, you can't compete. Aldi have barely managed to enter the market over the span of 2 decades wiith massive international backing and their own vertical integration. How would legislation be locking out the small players here, and how will deregulation solve this?
Bare minimum? How about emulating the US laws they were dodging... Though we can do far better than that. I can't help but notice they achieved that dominance in the absence of legislation that protected them though.
If legislation exclusively protects the monopolistic ends of companies, there's not really much risk, is there?
When the workers are shareholders, the workers manage these issues like any other shareholders. This isn't complicated. I won't raise the stats pointing to the resilience of coops through start-up and economic difficulty, nor those relating to worker satisfaction or pay.
There might be hope for you after all - we agreed to provide them for the common good because...?
I'm not in the UK, and the country is irrelevant - there's no law required to create that market failure. There usually isn't.