this post was submitted on 17 Aug 2023
3 points (51.9% liked)
Ukraine
8310 readers
587 users here now
News and discussion related to Ukraine
*Sympathy for enemy combatants is prohibited.
*No content depicting extreme violence or gore.
*Posts containing combat footage should include [Combat] in title
*Combat videos containing any footage of a visible human must be flagged NSFW
Server Rules
- Remember the human! (no harassment, threats, etc.)
- No racism or other discrimination
- No Nazis, QAnon or similar
- No porn
- No ads or spam
- No content against Finnish law
Donate to support Ukraine's Defense
Donate to support Humanitarian Aid
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
In Germany, the far left and the far right are most definitely pro-russia, each for their own reasons. The far right loves a Führer-like figure and that "minorities" are being actively discriminated in Russia, the left still considers Russia as being "anti-imperialist" even though Russia is definititely acting imperialistic af. And they are anti NATO. Russia considers both the german far left and far right as useful anti-NATO and anti-EU idiots, which aligns with their intentions. Thus they provide funding and relevance to them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OG0s3KANCY&pp=ygURd2FnZW5rbmVjaHQgcHV0aW4%3D
However, left/right moderates and liberals are pro Ukraine and they are the majority.
I guess it depends. I'll bring my country as an example, Italy. Here we have Right parties that are pro-Russia but at the same time our president is from a far-Right party and openly against Russia. On the other side, we have many left parties that are pro-Russia, mainly because they are anti-NATO. They hate America so much they choose to side with the child abducter Putin.
He uses some famous examples of American leftist intellectuals (to some extent) siding with Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Unfortunately, it is a thing.
https://www.dsausa.org/statements/on-russias-invasion-of-ukraine/
Democratic Socialists of America left enough for you? Demanding the US leave Ukraine and Eastern Europe for Russia to genocide.
It seems we are talking across each other. In Europe the US Democratic party is not really considered left. It has a left wing, AOC and such, which also happened to want to lessen support for Ukraine, but when Europeans talk about leftists what we usually mean is the farther left.
That's good to hear.
The point here is: The left, not some slightly more leftish conservatives but actual left-wing, are a small minority in many cases. In the US they are a fringe movement inside the not-as-far-right-as-republicans democratic party, in many EU countries they are often a small party overshadowed by nowadays very centric social democrats. And inside that already small faction there are probably even a handful of tankies.
And then there are usually quite big and rising right-wing populist parties paid by the Kreml (and some singular not-Russian-but-still-oligarchs donors... possible overlap in some cases included).
Trying -not for the first time in the last year- to push storylines equating a handful of ideologically problematic people that are a minority inside a left minority with big right-wing movements proven to be financed by Russia is one big piece "both sides" narrative and nothing more than propaganda...
The point here is that there exists a world outside the USA. In Europe, both far right and far left parties have taken money from Russia, and oppose helping Ukraine (especially militarily).
So your "argument" against itn being a just a narrative is linking the narrative again.
No... although that text tells the lie you want to believe, the German AfD (proven connections to Russia, proven financing through dubious source leading back to Russia, openly parroting Kremlin narratives, sending members to Russia or to the occupied areas in Ukraine to push Russian propaganda) for example is not the same as Germany's Die Linke (not even the quarter size (party and voters), completely transparent financing, so fragmented and at odds with each other that they can barely agree on an anything with a majority (the actual reason they barely get enough votes to stay relevant)).
"The right is paid by Russia so the left also is, because it has to be this way as I only have two arguments in total and 'both sides' is one of them" might work in your head, but not in reality when one side has very transparent financing and doesn't get money from Russia and the other side is the right-wing.
You have somehow managed to conflate being a pacifist with thinking that it's okay for Russia to invade sovereign nations.
You are a bit confused but that's OK
OK now you are really confused. Please note I'm the moderator lol
So now that's a thinly veiled threat on top of telling him how his own country works?
Yes, I have the power to end his entire career in this community. He should be polite to everyone, not just me, but I am also included with everyone. That being said, what is all this bullshit about "his own country"? People don't magically know how their own country works, let alone other countries. Also I don't even know which country is his country and I don't give a damn. He apparently doesn't know what country I'm from either.
Says the person clearly confusing either tankies or liberals (or both? lol) for leftists.
People on the actual left A. never fell for Putin who has clearly been a dictator in the making since he got the job, and B. ideologically oppose all and any states, and their leaders, so suggesting that, of all groups, leftists are the ones who somehow bought in to Putin is the most clueless and wilfully ignorant take.
Being a mod doesn't somehow magically make you correct nor well informed.
Oh sorry, the "actual" left. That solves everything, thanks
Yeah, but a tiny minority does not constitute "the left". It is blatantly misleading.
Tankies loves him, but in most European countries they constitute a tiny minority of the left. So yeah, definitely an incredibly misleading title for the video.
I assume that's intentional at this point...
There's a constant push of some big "both sides"-narratives, trying to equate a minority of (or even singular) tankies inside an already left-wing minority as totally equal to far-rights getting massively funded by Russia.
It’s definitely both. The ultra-left tankie lemmy instances love Russia and hate Ukraine too.
I would call anyone in that mindset not actually leftist, just right wing authoritarians with a red flag.
Unless you’re going to claim all the tankies on lemmygrad and hexbear are secret righties, you’re just wrong on this one.
I mean they call themselves communist and espouse communist ideology though.
Plenty of far right groups have called themselves communist and socialist.
If you think these people "espouse communist ideology" then you need to be specific about exactly what ideology, and how that leads to support for Putin.
It's what tears the German party The Left apart. One wing supports Russia, the other doesn't. Source: I live there
I havent paid too much attention to the us politics, but since you did and you live there what do you think on Hassans stand on it? I dont watch the guy, I just saw portions of his stance on it, which may be out of context. But he seemed to be anti ukraine in those clips, saying that Ukraine should surrender and US should stop helping Ukraine. Do you know anything about it? Can you please offer some insight?