this post was submitted on 15 Aug 2023
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[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (48 children)

What's the difference between a fascist and an "anarchist" who does everything they can to kneecap the only viable left leaning political party in the US?

There's no practical difference, just window dressing. They both cheer on oppression and pain for those suffering under Republicans.

And don't even get me started on communists. Left and right authoritarians, I've gotten death threats from both of them. Whether it's some leftist telling me I would "get the wall" when the Revolution comes or some fucking Republican telling me that the US was only for Christians and that they'll go after "traitors" soon, you get to the same fucking place at the end of the day. The only real difference is that there's far more Republicans, and they're far more organized than left authoritarians.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago (2 children)

bOtH sIdEs

This is why libs get clowned on so hard. You claim to support "the only viable left leaning political party", and yet you're kneecapping large swaths of people on the ground engaging in direct action advancing left leaning values. Remember, segregation wasn't ended because black people voted, blood was spilt in the streets. Same with the LGBT community, see the stonewall uprising, aka, the first pride parade.

I don't care how you vote, but if you can't see the difference between an anarchist engaging in direct action against an oppressive state and fascists doing hate crimes; well, I'd say it's time to get off your high horse and do a little introspection.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

yet you're kneecapping large swaths of people on the ground engaging in direct action advancing left leaning values

Direct action is meaningless if you're hostile to building a coalition broad enough to actually gain any significant political power. It doesn't matter how many lit memes anarchists and communists share on social media and how much they horn on about "direct action," this is a democracy and without votes going to candidates who can win, it is ultimately meaningless.

You want me to do some introspection? I did. I remember being young and convinced socialism was the way forward. Then I grew the fuck up and did some introspection.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Direct action is meaningless if you're hostile to building a coalition broad enough to actually gain any significant political power.

Spoken like someone who's never done organizing, participated in protests or any other direct action. You're a keyboard warrior who's probably never even interacted with a socialist IRL.

this is a democracy and without votes going to candidates who can win, it is ultimately meaningless.

Not a democracy and also I already gave 2 examples showing the contrary.

I remember being young and convinced socialism was the way forward. Then I grew the fuck up and did some introspection.

No need to be a condescending dick. I'm also guessing I'm older than you, not that it's relevant.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I've participated in dozens of protests. Protests with political organization can lead to change. Protests without political organization are just yelling at a wall.

No need to be a condescending dick.

If you don't want someone to take offense at what you write, don't smugly tell them to learn introspection. Act like an arrogant dick, get treated like an arrogant dick.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (9 children)

Protests with political organization can lead to change. Protests without political organization are just yelling at a wall.

Right... I'm not sure why you think I'm not in favor of organized resistance.

If you don't want someone to take offense at what you write, don't smugly tell them to learn introspection. Act like an arrogant dick, get treated like an arrogant dick.

You were doing a "both sides" between anarchists and fascists, eerily similar to Trump, while claiming to be "left leaning". I think my response was warranted, if not understated. But frankly, that's plain ignorant.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

This is delusional. Direct action absolutely has its place, but all the things you mentioned were ultimately won at the ballot box. As it should be. Don't let a childish revolution fetish blind you to what constitutes a viable framework for lasting progress.

Edit - "Has." As in he has a ball. Or she has a textbook.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (7 children)

It's funny how libs think they can tell me when direct action is necessary, and it's always in the past tense, never in the present.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Is your issue with anarchists or authoritarians? I somehow doubt that anarchists are sending you death threats. Nor do I see anarchists kneecapping the Democrats. Anarchists don't want a state, though many do vote for the moderate right-wing (not "left leaning") Democrats simply because they think it's the right thing to do.

Your sweeping generalizations and attempts to paint all of us with the same brush betray your own lack of knowledge, but don't worry, I'm sure the planet will last long enough for the Democrats' slow incremental change, and I'm sure my family in border camps are very thankful to be in liberal concentration camps.

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[–] Takapapatapaka 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

An anarchist is fighting against military/police. A fascist belongs, or wants to, to military/police. An anarchist is fighting against people who hold some power. A fascist is fighting against people because of their religion or origins. An anarchist likes to vote and discuss. A fascist likes to follow orders. An anarchist tends towards decentralization. A fascist tends towards centralization.

This are only some differences but spoiler alert : anarchist and fascist are not the same. They do not act the same way, they do not think the same way.

I understand that you hate them both, it is your point of view, and it's okay. But please, follow my advice : avoid trying to justify it with sentences as universal and strong as "There is no practical difference", it makes the whole thing ridiculous.

In the end, saying there is only "one viable [...] party", and even believing in a party itself, are also part of the problem imo. If you truly believe in this sentence, no wonder why you dislike anarchists and why they probably dislike you. But does it imply that either you or them are fascistic ? And if yes, did you considered that it could be you, who are defending a single "viable" party as the only solution, hating on every other option ?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

His point was that "anarchist" was in quotes because they self-identify as an anarchist but behave in contradictory way.

And I would say my experience with a few lemmy instances is exactly that. "I am an anarchist" is a way of creating group lines, consisting of the in-group of anarchists, and everyone else in the out-group (fascists and liberals together).

It's really silly because it's an inherent contradiction. The point of being an anarchist is that there is no out-group, and yet they've just recreated the in-group out-group mentality all over again.

[–] Takapapatapaka 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Oh, okay thank you for clarification. I agree with you, sectarianism is to me one of the biggest problem in far-left groups. But I still think that this is not enough imo to justify that "There is no practical difference" between them and fascists, even if restricted to their behavior on those communities. Anyway, i understand this comment better now, thank you <3

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Oh yeah, there's a huge difference between tankies and fascists. Tankies are 10,000% better.

Suppose my only two choices in a vote were between a tankie that punched me in the face and slept with my mother, and a fascist. I would not just vote for the tankie, I would also donate money, canvas for them, and tell all my friends to vote for them.

I think it's just an online problem, anybody who gets radicalized in an echo chamber loses the plot of their own cause. It's just optics.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If an "anarchist" is trying to undermine any politician with a realistic chance of making office who is at all sympathetic to efforts at police reform, they're not fighting the police, they're fighting reform efforts.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Don't lump anarchists with way too online MLs.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

That's why I am specifically criticizing people who spend all their time undermining the Democrats rather than trying to engage in real activism

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

the only viable left leaning political party in the US?

I might be misunderstanding you, so I apologize if that is the case, but if you are referring to the Democrats they are far from left leaning. They aren't even center leaning.

You can't even say they have a better track record than the Republicans. They bomb countries as much (or in recent years even more) than the Republicans. They advocate for wars. They fund ICE even more than the Republicans. They stand up just as much for reproductive rights (read: not at all). They just do all of it while waving a rainbow flag.

I really hope you meant the Greens or the CPUSA; which have their own issues but are certainly more left than either the Democrats or Republicans.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

This comment is giving me so much whiplash.

I was sure it was gonna be ironic when they started comparing anarchists to fascists, but fun fact: no, they actually mean it. Anarchists are fascists, everyone. You've heard it here first!

I swear, if there's something liberals hate more than what's on their right, it's what's on their left.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

What’s the difference between a fascist and an “anarchist” who does everything they can to kneecap the only viable left leaning political party in the US?

Sorry which party is this? Dems are not even a remotely left-leaning party. Joe Biden literally criminalized the rail workers using their legal right to strike.

This is also like a children's picture book-level of understanding of fascism. As if the Dems' policy of 4 more years of the status quo could prevent fascism at all. That has literally never worked as a way to combat fascism.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Joe Biden literally criminalized the rail workers using their legal right to strike.

And then used his platform and office to force the rail companies to address their concerns. You fucks are so dishonest

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Do you have a source for this? I have never heard the other side of this story so I am interested.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

I will repeat this until the heat-death of the universe:

Personal liberty and self-determination are assailed by many threats: the theocrats, nihilists, corporatists, fascists, and so-called "collectivists". They all claim to be the true authoritative “voice of the people”. 

Extreme authoritarian "leftists", A.K.A. “tankies” (i.e., apologists for Lenin, Stalin, Mao, the CCP, the DPRK, Fidel Castro, Che Guevara, Xi Jingping, etc.), are threats to a free, egalitarian, and open society, are just as violently authoritarian as their religious, corporatist, and fascist competitors, and should be treated with the contempt, distrust, and ridicule they deserve.

They claim to speak and fight for the proletariat, promising a new utopia, never before seen, once their revolution executes the last “class-traitor”. In practice, once they’re finished with “seizing the means of production”, they’ll never relinquish control and become the new ruling class. Beware of their cults. Understand what they really are; power over everything and everyone, forever, is what they seek. They want you either as a true believer (a willing pawn) or dead, just like all of the other supposedly benevolent dictators who promised utopias throughout history.

They’ll assume the mantle of an enlightened elite post-revolutionary administration to guide the proletariat to their promised utopia of “each according to their ability, to each according to their need”. In practice, "the party leadership needs the most, because they’re obviously the most able” in reorganizing the economic and political structure of society. The utopia of the “dictatorship of the proletariat” will never exist, only the dictatorship of the “revolutionary party”. Repression and execution await those who question their claims and decisions. These supposed champions of labor are really harbingers of death - of the mind and the body politic.

They’re akin to the pigs in Orwell's Animal Farm, the loudest voices in the revolution, usurpers of a righteous cause, but a bit “more equal” than everyone else after the farmer is done away with. Fortunately, the pigs, like the farmer, got their comeuppance in the end of the story.

Make these pigs squeal.

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