this post was submitted on 13 Aug 2023
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~~You want authoritarianism...?~~
EDIT: From what I can see, your post history suggests otherwise. Still, though, I'm growing rather tired of the misappropriation of the Gadsden flag -- it is not a conservative symbol.
The joke is improperly founded, imo. The post's title "Kinkservative" more or less proves that the joke is founded on the presumption that the Gadsden flag is some auth-right symbol, which it is quite far from being. All this post does is push a narrative that the Gadsden flag is something that it is not. I don't want to see it be twisted into something opposite of what it fundamentally represents.
A symbol is only as good as what it represents. Symbols mean different things to different people, but the zeitgeist determines what the Gadsden Flag means in the here and now, and in the here and now the Gadsden Flag is the flag of auth-right fascists pretending to be Libertarian only so far as it means their own freedoms and nobody else’s.
The collective's opinion need not be static. My argument is that the flag's original intent needs to be defended. I don't wish for it to permanently become twisted into something that represents the auth-right.
It still baffles me as to why they would even touch it in the first place. It's opposed to everything the auth right stands for.
The principles represented in the past by the Gadsden flag don't have to be permanently bonded to the literal flag. Symbols are tools, and if a tool is damaged by misuse then it should be replaced with one suited appropriately to the task.
The Gadsden flag as it was originally intended is a historical context now. The damaged modern reputation for the Gadsden flag is the crazy stuff done by the proud boys and alt-right groups that wave the Gadsden flag at all of their rallies. Mourn it if you must but it's too late to try and protect this symbol from having its meaning warped, it happened years ago.
I think if you want a modern example of a symbol that stands up to oppression you don't have to look any further than Pride flags
I appreciate your viewpoint; it is fair. I will continue, for the time being, to fight for the flags original meaning, as I haven't lost hope.
While I wholeheartedly support the movement behind the original Pride flag, I'm not so certain about the new one -- they appear to be more interested in ideas of equity, rather than equality.
As an aside, in my research I came across this:
A happy middleground between the two? 😜
I'm afraid you'll have to be more specific what you mean by "more interested in equity, rather than equality". To me, and as far as I know the reason for, the new design of that newer flag is resistance to oppression through collaberation. The opposite of "divide and conquer", since often times disparaged groups have difficulty seeking fair treatment due to their small relative portion of the population.
I've seen the rainbow gadsden flag before. To me, as someone who is not a fan of modern use of the gadsden flag because I think it means more by association than design, it seems more like an attempt to repair the reputation of the Gadsden flag than anything else.
The ethos of the new flag, from what I can tell, appears to be about singling out certain groups for special treatment (equity), rather than everyone being treated equally, and fairly.
I apologize if this is ignorant -- I am trying to understand -- but is this not the ethos of the original flag? I understood it as a symbol to collect these marginalized groups to then give them a voice to advocate for societal, and legal equality.
This is a fair point. I personally think that it is rather redundant, anyways; the original Gadsden flag already encompasses equality, and liberty, as its core values. Originally speaking of course.
Pride flags are kinda loosey goosey across which two pride flags mean which pride-related thing, since there are no consistent rules to it and there are many of them, so you aren't exactly wrong that the first pride flag means that, however, many people just think of it as the flag for gay men.
The new flag (I'm not actually an expert on this history of this so forgive me for being inexact) I believe was created to coincide with a change in strategy, from a focus on just sexual minorities collaberating against oppressors, to a focus on "let's find anyone else the oppressors are targeting and work with them too." Not an effort to get them special treatment, but to signal explicitly that all sexual minorities, gender minorities, racial minorities, feminism, and anyone else can be/should be/are all on the same team and we will have each others back, and stand together against oppressors.
Tld;dr I tend to think of it as "The gangs all here, and you aren't capable of stopping all of us if we work together"
If it is simply a resistance to authoritarian oppression, then wouldn't that simply come back around to the Gadsden flag? A collective that lacks individual equality in liberty is, by definition, oppressive.
Wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too late
I personally don't believe so, and even if you are right, it would be a sincere loss, and not something that should be encouraged.
"Misappropriation" lololol
The Gadsden flag is fundamentally not a conservative symbol, so I don't know why it's being used, and treated as such. This post, and meme is presuming that the Gadsden flag is fundamentally represents those in the alt-right, auth-right, conservative, etc. circles. I have no idea why it's popped up in groups like the "proud boys"; they're idiots if they think it aligns with them in any shape or form.
My dude, I am as angry as anyone that the Trumpers and such have taken the Gadsen flag from us. But just like the pain of accepting Pluto's demotion, you need to accept that they have successfully done so. That ship has sailed. It will not be a suitable symbol for groups at the opposite end of the spectrum (or by anyone who isn't a raging fascist) during the remainder of our natural lifetimes.
There's no path to reclaiming it in the near term.
Are you equating the scientific reclassification of a celestial body to the missappropriation of a political symbol...? That is a ridiculous comparison to make. Those are in no way similar concepts.
That being said, I refuse to give up on the Gadsden flag so easily. It's history is worth fighting for, in my opinion. Not to mention that, from a vexological standpoint, it is brilliantly designed!
I was just having some fun with it. 🙂
Fair enough.
I apologize if my response came off as harsh. It is difficult to decypher tone, or intent through text at times.
No worries!
Flags always eventually get misappropriated. Its part of the core nature of them.
The only way to prevent that from happening is for people to stand up for their true meaning, and to consistently, and publically denounce their misuse. The best way to cure bad speech is to use better speech.
You're right. Ima start rocking a swastika to fight against its appropriation from Zoroastrinism, I'm sure everyone will understand and do it too.
While I understand what you're getting at, I'm not certain that it's necessarily a fair argument in this case. All I'm saying is that we should fight to prevent such misappropriations. The only way for that to happen is for a collective shift, and restoration in understanding to happen. One of the main issues is that people, on average, have little to no understanding of the Gadsden Flag's history, or meaning so when some entity attributes its meaning to something other than what it actually is, people end up thinking that it must be the true original meaning.
People know and react to its current meaning, regardless of knowing its original meaning or not.
Exactly like the swastika. Some people know its true original meaning, some don't. But all know what it means seeing someone today brandishing one.
This statement is missing the point that such thinking requires some prerequisite knowledge of the symbol. Why stop at uncommonly seen, and extremely modern usage, and abandon the well over 200 years of pre-existing knowledge?
Still though, I wouldn't give up on the Gadsden flag so quickly. I firmly believe that as long as the average public can be made aware of how ridiculous the auth-right's using the flag is, and continues to call them out on it, it can be saved. I'm pretty sure that the majority of the auth-right, and other groups haven't considered how contradicting it is to their platform. To me, seeing someone in the auth-right flying the Gadsden flag is just as weird as if, hypothetically, a marxist decided to fly it.
It's not like those who know its original meaning suddenly decided to change it. If enough people who don't know or don't care about the original meaning give it a new meaning, then that does become a "correct" meaning.
Just like language. You can yell at everyone that literally doesn't mean figuratively all you want, but in the end it still ended up updated in all the dictionaries as meaning just that (along with its original meaning, of course).