this post was submitted on 06 Aug 2023
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NonCredibleDefense
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Sure. I'm sure Trinidad and Tobago, and Albania, are definitely Nazis. And those anarchists with their black and red flags, they're definitely Nazis too, right?
Seriously though, in this case, it's the unofficial war flag of Ukraine.
It was originally associated with the WWII nationalist Banderite movement, which has some dubious history but is important in the 20th century story of Ukrainian nationalism. However its usage has evolved and is used widely, albeit unofficially, in modern Ukraine, by lots of military-associated groups who have nothing to do with Nazis or fascism.
One of the main selling points of it is that it trolls people who uncritically believe that Ukraine is run by Nazis.
Literally what is being accomplished by this? I'm sure these people feel so incredibly owned by a Ukrainian nationalist flag.
Russians in positions of power have frequently said that Ukraine is an aberration, and doesn't actually exist at all as a national identity. So any Ukrainian symbol is an act of resistance to that.
Why use that particular flag? Well, why does anyone do any trolling? Because it feels good getting an emotional reaction out of other people. Because it feels good sticking it to those people who want you dead, or assimilated.
But also because it helps to figure out who isn't a fan of the concept of Ukrainian statehood. If the initial reaction towards a Ukrainian nationalist flag is that it's "Nazi" then that's a pretty strong signal.
This is like defending the use of a Swastika because it is also a Hindu symbol. Everyone knows this isnt about Trinidad, Tobago, Albania or Ancoms.
I defend the use of the swastika as a Hindu and Buddhist symbol... Also fuck Nazis.
Red and black flags are pretty common antifascist circles and with anarchists and some socialists. Pretty sure the flag here is not related to the upa since it includes the trident... Please school me verbosity if I'm mistaken?
Anyways the community flag is the NATO flag. See below 👇
https://sh.itjust.works/post/2283444
Again to be clear fuck Nazis, fascists and tankies.
THIS red and black flag, not any colored flag. As you said, it is nazi. Why do you think it's used by military groups?
Also, "we are ironically Nazis" Sure
It's worked though, hasn't it? No one with half a gram of understanding of modern Ukraine thinks it's Nazi - nationalist, yes, but not Nazi - and yet there are several accounts on the thread who have taken that bait.
Finding Nazis everywhere is paranoia, and demeans the experience of the millions who suffered and died because of actual Nazis.
No. It is the flag of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army. They were similar to the country of Finland at the time, trying to make their own Ukrainian state against the Soviets (Different than the Finns who already had a state, but wanted territory back from the winter wars) Originally fighting against the Nazis with guerilla tactics,They later cooperated with the Nazis, as they had a common goal - to defeat the Russians. I'm not sure what their plan was afterwards, seeing as the Germans wished to annex that land for "living space" rather than leave it to the supposedly inferior Slavs.