this post was submitted on 28 Jul 2023
98 points (90.8% liked)
Asklemmy
43913 readers
1510 users here now
A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions
If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!
- Open-ended question
- Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
- Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
- Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
- An actual topic of discussion
Looking for support?
Looking for a community?
- Lemmyverse: community search
- sub.rehab: maps old subreddits to fediverse options, marks official as such
- [email protected]: a community for finding communities
~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_[email protected]~
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
My family is from Iowa, where they've had record breaking storms 3 out of the last 5 years, heat waves lasting longer than ever in history, record cold, and to top it off, wildfire smoke for the first time ever. (Note that this is after they made fun of Cali for being Cali and being on fire). No, none of these events have registered as connected in any way.
Nothing will ever convince these people. They are immune to evidence and argument.
logic will never convince them because they aren't arguing from a position of logic. It's about conforming to the beliefs required to be part of their tribe and/or protecting themselves from coming to terms with the harsh realities of climate change. It's reactionary against a challenge to their beliefs.
You would need to first convince them to consider that their respected authorities could be wrong. But within this reactionary mindset, being wrong is disgraceful. So unless they lose respect for their leaders or manage to shift away from believing fallibility is disgraceful, I don't know if they can be convinced.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.
This may be one of the most insightful things I've ever read or heard. Are you quoting someone, or should I quote you?
It's attributed to Jonathan Swift, 1721
https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/07/10/reason-out/
Awesome, thank you!
If you google the exact words, this is what comes up:
Dear Quote Investigator: Jonathan Swift was a prominent literary figure who authored “Gulliver's Travels” and “A Modest Proposal”. He has been credited with an elegant thought about the limitations of persuasion via logical argument: You cannot reason someone out of something he or she was not reasoned into.Thanks!
That's kind of why I'm asking, the month long heat wave should be eye opening.
I think you'd need to start by getting them to admit that the heat is a problem without mentioning climate change. Don't use any of the buzz words they've been taught how to respond to. Just try to get them to have a conversation where they have to come up with their own answers.
In fact, maybe don't even start off with anything related to the topics they've been told what to think about. Ask about something they care about more directly that isn't on their party's agenda. You'd need to keep at it long enough for them to start understanding you're not their enemy, which could be anywhere from a few hours to a few weeks/months, depending on how deeply entrenched they are. Then, start trying to work towards the lesser issues their authority doesn't bring up often but has expressed an opinion on. Basically, you need to de-indoctrinate them.
If you can get them to talk about an issue without recognizing immediately that they're in danger of contradicting their chosen authorities, then slowly transition towards getting them to talk about more and more "dangerous" topics, you might help them to bridge that disconnect and start thinking critically about the key issues.
That all said, You'll have an easier time working with people who haven't been deeply entrenched in an authoritarian ideology. The less developed their beliefs, the easier it'll be to guide them towards thinking about their beliefs critically. That's one reason it's so important to teach critical thinking in primary/secondary schools.
Nope. Many have had the urge to ask questions literally beaten out of them in their youth.
Worse. I think many are immune to observation.
maybe if you can convince them that global warming helps out joe biden they will be against it.
You see it's a conspiracy, Sleepy Joe wants us to keep using fossil fuels so the liberals will vote him back it so it looks like he's doing something! The last thing he wants is for us to stop using fossil fuels! I bought an EV today just to spite him
most electric plants use coal or natural gas. EV isnt any "cleaner" than a small gas engine.
We're on nuclear, solar, and hydro where I am, something like 90-95% of my energy is clean. Demand your local energy go green!
They've run the numbers a long time ago. Even using the dirtiest electricity state in the US, EVs come out ahead of combustion engines. And we've come a long ways since then too.
The biggest difference is even when using dirty energy source electrice vehicles are more efficient at using the electricity from the dirty sources than gas engines are at burning gasoline directly
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/evtech.shtml
An EV goes about 6 times as far as an equal weight and aeri ICE on the same energy. A typical EV goes ten times as far as a typical ICE. Even the most inefficient coal plant still puts the EV ahead (including embodied emissions) after a year or two.
Neither are sustainable as the default transport for people.
Right on par with the old, “Hurr durr of course it’s hot, it’s July!!!1!1!!1!” comments. These are the same folks who, when faced with a polar vortex in December or January, proudly and obnoxiously crow about “global warming.”
Their tiny brains just can't comprehend the difference between weather and climate. I have had meager success explaining that climate change results in worse extremes, colds get colder,hots get hotter, and storms get stronger, but even then it's only some of them that actually listen. The rest are like "I've got it allllll figured out" and refuse to listen, then drive off in their 0.7mpg Ford Tahoe Super Manly Man Maker to go to the grocery store 8 blocks away.
It's the hottest July in recorded history. Likely the hottest for tens of thousands of years. There hasn't been below average temperatures since the eighties, no not even that winter that you thought was quite cold at the time. Polar vortices are supposed to happen at, you know, the poles.