this post was submitted on 02 Feb 2025
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Privacy
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Why would Matrix be the only option? XMPP is significantly better. You can either sign up on a public server or pay a small sum to have your own private server for you and your family for example on https://snikket.org/ or I think https://jmp.chat/ also includes optionally a small server in the subscription.
I've always been curious with the differences between XMPP and matrix but i can't ever find anything explaining it. Why is it in your opinion better?
It's an open protocol, unlike 99% of chat protocols. It's self-hostable and federated.
It's IRC's successor and been around a long time, first popularized by Jabber. Snikket made it even easier to use.
It was also EEEed by Meta and Google to lure users at a given point, with leads some to say "it's dead" — far from it.
Edit: you may need to ensure OMEO versions are the same across all clients.
Right, but how does that make it better than matrix? it is also an open protocol, and most spaces that i use are on matrix anyway.
attempted to be EEEed is a good sign i guess, since it implies it's a threat to meta and google though.
They succeded in a way, XMPP lost a lot of users back then in the era when communications where migrating from group-focussed IRC to individual-focused Whatsapp (or their respective walled-gardened messengers).
Better than matrix in the ways [email protected] listed above.
Sounds good, thanks for the info :)
Basically Matrix is to Xmpp, what Bluesky is to ActivityPub. Which all the various issues both technically and related to VC and crypto-currency funding.
In addition Matrix uses a federation model that is extremely inefficient, making it hard to run your own server once you have a few users that join larger rooms. And as a side effect of this inefficient federation model that replicates the database onto all participating servers, it tends to centralize all the metadata on the servers (run on AWS under UK jurisdiction) hosted by the for-profit company that is behind Matrix.
And last but not least they rugpulled everyone very recently and made the only fully functional server implementation open-core to upsell larger servers to their proprietary hosted offering.
You’re always here to talk to sense into the folks :)
Interesting, and I didn't know matrix itself into that much short (though they always had a lifeless corpo feeling..)
I've always wanted to create an account but never was able to figure out how (for my chosen servers at least) but know i want to try again. thanks for the info :)
I know I am just a normie who doesn't really know internal workings of them... But in my experience, XMPP is just easier to host, the servers are lighter, they don't store everything they touch forever like Matrix does, and OMEMO doesn't break like Matrix's encryption. Synapse would be probably impossible to run on my VPS, while Conduit and Dendrite are not as full-featured.
OMEMO is a mixed bag. Some clients are still preferring older versions that aren’t the best for security & almost every client does a bad job explaining that new keys are being used need to be verified… Gajim only recently gave a decent in-client pop-up for it, but it’s doesn’t work all the time. That said, this is basically the same issue Matrix has in the space. Both are based on
libsignalif not outright using it, except Signal gets a point of privilege in basically having just one client …one that must be on Android/iOS according to their statements… so they can do a ‘better’ job managing who, what, & how many keys are being used. Many XMPP clients will recommend blind trust by default just because it can be a real hassle to deal with multiple clients & users coming back to less-often-used devices. There have been proposals to fix it, but I haven’t seen anything really take off (meanwhile considering just using the PGP encryption option as less flaky).Yeah, I agree it has some issues. Personally was fine verifying keys tho - either in-person or wherever I met them (usually IRC).
And yeah, the insistence on mobile in Signal bugs me a lot - a desktop is A LOT easier to make private (Linux runs on damn everything) while most phones won't allow making them not spy due to locked bootloader.
I am just thankful so far that Signal has let WhisperFish exist as an alternative—even if it goes against what they say—which gives me an alternative to the Android/iOS duopoly.