this post was submitted on 15 Jan 2025
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You don’t lift 800+ million people out of poverty by concentrating all of the profits among a small few. And China has increasingly been prosecuting their wealthy.
Which is what they really don’t want us learning to do.
This is false attribution.
There's no way to verify how other political system would have worked for China. Maybe it would have worked even better? Taiwan for one is richer, stronger and happier than China per capita so does that mean dictatoriship -> democracy is a better system? Do you see the flaw in this attribution logic now? So, unless you have a time machine...
Actually it’s very easy to know. By design, capitalism concentrates most of the reward among a small number of privileged few.
And people with good sense judge a country by how well it’s working people are doing- not by how much more wealth a few people have been able to hoard.
Capitalists use the same exact argument for why outsourcing labor to the poorest countries is actually a good thing. For real, I’ve argued so many right wingers saying “searching for the cheapest labor actually helps the worlds economy because you’re lifting those poor people of _____ out of poverty! It doesn’t matter that it’s only pennies/day, because to them, that’s a lot of money!”
Pretty goddamn gross behavior.
Outsourcing is extracting wealth from another nation. How can you possibly compare that to lifting ones own citizens out of poverty?
https://sccei.fsi.stanford.edu/china-briefs/rise-wealth-private-property-and-income-inequality-china
Exchange isn't extraction. If you're buying raw materials from Africa, yes. If you're buying finished goods from China, no.
This is precisely why the US had a sudden about face about China. They were hoping their entryism with capitalist exchange would result in the fall of the communist party, who number one priority is preventing the plundering of resources through unequal exchange.
You can't untangle the outsourcing of manufacturing to China from that.
I wasn’t making a 1:1 comparison. I was saying that “but look how many people have been lifted out of poverty!” argument is a capitalist argument, because it completely ignores the reality of the situation. Have people been lifted out of poverty by outsourcing? Of course. But that doesn’t negate the core problem.
As the other person mentioned, outsourcing manufacturing TO china is largely responsible for the manufacturing boon there. And then rich Chinese capitalists (though they use the cover of not being called capitalists) became rich middlemen between “western” businesses and the cheap Chinese labor. So outsourcing has absolutely contributed to it. You and the American capitalists are looking at the same thing, one is crediting American executive innovation, the other is crediting the CCP.
You do it by exploiting the billions outside your borders from countries even more poor like mine where they sell their garbage low quality products that cant be repaired or recycled, from shitty earphones to bikes that start breaking down in a year, taking advantage of poor people who cant afford to buy anything of better quality. China isnt better than us when it comes to exploitation and inequality.
Hold up. You think the Chinese are the ones deciding to manufacture low quality products, and not the capitalists who are ordering them that way?
They are spreading their wealth to those in need. Not exploiting. They value mutually beneficial relationships.
https://x.com/Hammonda1/status/1787061224062013553?mx=2
Chinese manufacturers build according to budget. They are perfectly capable of making high quality products, and do. The problem is a lot of companies (looking at you, Walmart) demand their Chinese manufacturers build products for a pittance -- the manufacturers won't say no, but they'll find a profit for themselves by using lower cost materials. (ETA: also less quality control and cheaper labor)
Ask yourself -- if you were a woodworker and someone offered you $250 to build a small stand out of wenge, you'll probably do a good job of it. If someone offered you $30 to build the same stand, and you really needed that $30, you'd make it with pine and just paint or stain it to look like wenge. Chinese manufacturers are no different.
Bingo.
Bro, there's ALOT of Chinese capitalists.
Humans are humans.
They all work for the government.
What do you think “capitalist” means?
I don’t think you know, because by definition there cannot be “alot.” That’s the whole point of capitalism- to concentrate the means of production into the hands of a very few.
Sure buddy, keep that head up your ass.
LoL. You really are just parroting propaganda, without any clue what the words you’re saying actually mean.
I think the Chinese businessmen are exploiting slave laborers to produce cheap goods and export them to most of the world. Would you call that a mutually beneficial relationship?
I wouldn’t. Source?
Chinese brands owned by Chinese capitalists operating with consent from the chinese state.
Using planned obsolescence and taking advantage of poor consumer and environmental protection laws to sell garbage to people trapped in a cycle of poverty isn't exploitation? Also China 'invested' billions here too and we didnt get any hospitals. We got china flooding our markets with its shitty goods and chinese 'businessmen' running scam centers.
they do have a mutually beneficial relationship with our dictators.
I love that capitalists attacking communists always end up accidentally attacking capitalism. Classic.
China is a capitalist country with aspects of socialism. it's not really communist anymore.
No one here is shitting on communists, were shitting on you for a thinking the Chinese are any different than us.
China is a capitalist shithole but for some reason its biggest defenders are always self proclaimed western communists.
edit: we also have a few militant communists groups that like to blow up chinese nationals working for their govt every now and then.
What exactly do you think “capitalist” means? Because it sounds like you think any participation in markets is capitalism.
I think dengist policy introduced a capital holding class to China and that the workers don't have democratic control of the workplace.
Fair nuance there, but they seem to be taking reform seriously. But we’ll see if that keeps up.
What do you think “capitalist” means? It sounds like you think it’s just market participation.
Yeah you do it with slave labor, genocide, mass aborting baby girls, and IP theft.
Did you lift this straight out of a State Dept press release?
Why would I need to, these things have been known for decades?
Don't get me wrong, capitalists (ex apple) love to collude, but it doesn't make china some magical perfect land.
Yes, the intelligence orgs have been spreading lies for decades.
China isn’t perfect, but most of the scandal news we hear about it is fabricated by our government. Even our own government has now admitted they made up the Uyghur genocide claims.
Huh. Care to link the last one?
https://law.stanford.edu/press/state-department-lawyers-concluded-insufficient-evidence-to-prove-genocide-in-china/
What they were actually trying to combat was China preventing the US from continuing to radicalize and use the Uyghurs as a front for regime change operations.
First, thanks for actually following up!
About the actual statement:
I believe that "technically, we cannot prove it's genocide, just crimes against humanity" is still a pretty clear and bold statement.
They’re putting their spin on it. In reality, the State Dept has been trying to radicalize and train the Uyghurs as an extremist front to destabilize the region. China has been working to detain, de-radicalize, and rehabilitate the extremists.
Even in their own spin, the State Dept does not imply any loss of life or mass casualties.
Ok, so where's your link for that.
https://x.com/SpokespersonCHN/status/1380170110736855041?mx=2