this post was submitted on 01 Jan 2025
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Let's not pretend that the Nazis didn't have a massive amount of support (and still does). Reminder that the vast majority of Germans at the time were in full support of the Holocaust in the same way that the vast majority of Israelis are in full support of the genocide in Palestine. Badmouthing the Holocaust in any of the Axis Powers countries would have been met with the same kind of backlash, and people in the Anglosphere just don't want to admit that the societies we live in are the new Axis Powers and do in fact want the Palestinians exterminated the same way that Nazi Germany wanted the Jews exterminated.
The vast majority of Germans did not know about the death camps. They were under the impression that the Jews were held in labour and prison camps and only learned about the genocide towards the end of the war, around 1943.
My (great)grandparents were in the Dutch resistance and saved many people, including Jews. They thought they were saving them from labour and prison camps.
They also only learned about the death camps towards the end of the war when news of it started leaking out. This made them even more resolved to save whom they could, which was hard in the Dutch famine in the 1944/1945 winter. They gave away a lot of food that winter.
Neither they, nor the Germans, could do much more than that. Trying to protest the Holocaust would lead to immediate arrest by the Nazi's.
Also, even the Nazi's didn't know about the Holocaust until the 1942 Wannsee conference where they invented it as "the final solution". By that time the war had entered its third year.
My point is, unlike the Israelis today, the German public as whole at that time can only be accused of being complicit in genocide, during a period where they themselves were under martial law. They can not be accused of supporting genocide while still enjoying civil rights.
Which is why I have more disdain for the Israelis today.
Then. We. Should. Stop. Arming. Israel.
Because as it stands now, Western countries are not just complicit in genocide, they're actively helping to perpetuate it. Your tax dollars are being used to exterminate an ethnic group. Mine too.
If we were to ACTUALLY call it a clusterfuck and walk away, that would be BETTER than what we're doing right now.
Israel was holding ~12k hostages held without charges or access to legal representation when Hamas took theirs on Oct 7, just after Israel had taken over al aqsa mosque on Oct 4.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/4/israeli-settlers-storm-al-aqsa-mosque-complex-on-fifth-day-of-sukkot
Hamas tried to trade those hostages the very next day. Israel refused to trade any Palestinian hostages. So Hamas refuses too. If you'd be honest, you'd admit that Israel doesnt want those hostages back. They'd much rather have a new flimsy reason to blow innocent civilians up and steal their land. And what was Israel doing stealing Al Aqsa mosque on the 4th? was that just a peaceful thing you think? Not intended to stoke conflict, just minding their own business, is that your story?
"Letβs call it a cluster fuck that has been going on for 100s of years. And will continue well past your and my deaths."
-- You
By your own logic, we should let Israel deal with its own problems. Why does the West have to keep supplying them with weapons?
Also, Israel's actions since Oct 7 have exceeded tenfold the depravity of Hamas's crimes on that date so it's interesting how selective your sympathy is. Getting kidnapped or killed by Hamas is horrible, obviously, but can the same not be said about getting carpet bombed by Israel?
Yeah because that was such a successful thing and definitely didn't make things worse for all involved. It also totally didn't kill far more civilians in the Middle East than the 9/11 attacks killed civilians in the US.
Stop pretending that was some heroic thing and just admit that it was an act of revenge and collective punishment. Just like what Israel is doing right now.
They've been paid back for their attack 100 times over. What exactly do you think would get them to release any remaining hostages at this point?
Israel is founded on Settler-Colonialism of Palestine, it has a century long history in its current iteration. Just like the US genocide of indigenous peoples, Israelis are committing genocide against Palestinians and stealing their land. Equating them is to erase this very central fact, Israel cannot exist without genocide and Settler-Colonialism, while Palestine can. Trying to pretend there's a deep, several century long history of the current fascist Israeli state is false.
Lets not, because you're flat out lying about that, bangcrash. 100 years. Not hundreds. In the ~800 years of the ottoman empire this wasnt happening, and that empire ended in November 1922.
Zionists like to lie about this history to make it seem like an intractable problem of ethnic hatred, but its self serving BS driven by 80 years of apartheid by Israel on the people living in that region, starting with the Zionist terrorism leading up to the Nakba.
The UN needs to admit they royally effed up in creating Israel back in 1948, and walk that back. Zionist terrorists have no right to be known as an israeli state in 1948, and no right to treat human beings in this manner from then until today. Israel needs to be disolved and the Israelis sent back to Russia and Europe where they came from. 80 years is enough. the ongoing injustice and genocide needs to end before the Israelis kill every non-jew in the region.
If the UN cannot or will not do that they are criminals themselves and should disolve in shame.
Yes we should ethnicly cleanse the middle east of all Jews and Israelis.
The Nakba was murderous land theft, and 80 years of murderous apartheid and human rights violations cant be defended. The terrorism and mass murder is a daily occurrence, and yet you whine about "ethnic cleansing" like Israel is some sort of victim.
Restorative justice is possible, but the UN land plan was unjust and needs to be rescinded. I dont care if murderers and terrorists like it. GTFO.
Conflating Jews and Israelis is bigoted. Jews have lived in the Levant uninterrupted for thousands of years. They were not in Israel for the vast majority of that time.
I am a Jew. I am not an Israeli. I have no affiliation with or affinity for Israel. Do not associate me with them.
It's kinda sad because Israel brands itself as the representative of all Jews everywhere, which in my opinion, has actually increased antisemitism and made Jews worldwide LESS safe. Israel's very existence is antithetical.
I come from a country with very significant Jewish history, and almost all of us here despise Israel with a burning passion regardless. I don't think it's allowed to represent Jews and Judaism, seeing the war crimes it has committed and continues to commit to this very day. Oh, but criticism of Israel is antisemitic, MY ASS. There are Muslims that hate Saudi Arabia, why don't you call them Islamophobic, huh?
Genocide apologia spotted