this post was submitted on 20 Dec 2024
103 points (100.0% liked)

politics

19239 readers
2478 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

• Register To Vote

• Citizenship Resource Center

• Congressional Awards Program

• Federal Government Agencies

• Library of Congress Legislative Resources

• The White House

• U.S. House of Representatives

• U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

• News

• World News

• Business News

• Political Discussion

• Ask Politics

• Military News

• Global Politics

• Moderate Politics

• Progressive Politics

• UK Politics

• Canadian Politics

• Australian Politics

• New Zealand Politics

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
outrageousmatter
aidan
jordanlund
HLMenckenFan
little_cow
103
US said to demand Israel declare it is not deliberately starving Gazans (www.timesofisrael.com)
submitted 3 days ago by [email protected] to c/politics
28 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

The Biden administration’s Middle East aid envoy Lisa Grande reportedly made demands of Israel regarding the humanitarian situation in the Gaza Strip, in a harsh phone call with Israel’s military liaison to the Palestinians, COGAT chief Gen. Ghassan Alian.

Channel 12 news reports that Grande demanded during the call that Israel declare it is not following a policy of deliberately starving Gazans

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] ExperiencedWinter 7 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Bombings and murders are always terrible, however it sounds like you might be advocating for punishing anyone who lives in the region, not the organizations that were responsible for those attacks. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_punishment

[–] JustZ -5 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Yes, it's a very nuanced situation. Incidental casualties are permissive in war though, pretty untroversially, I might add. I'm absolutely not content to let any more generations of Palestinians live and die under the rule of actual terrorists in an actual far-right dictator state. It's sad that 1% of the country there has been unable to escape from Hamas, and got killed for it.

I think the other 99% of people in Gaza are probably ready to move on from Hamas's utterly failed leadership.

[–] ExperiencedWinter 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Dude are you blind? You're calling genocide "incidental casualties"? When your only argument is "Hamas Bad" maybe you should take a longer look at what Israel is doing to normal people every day. It's absolutely clear you believe normal people are valid military targets, and any argument you come up with is just justifying that stance.

[–] JustZ -2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I think you're blind. Hamas is the cause of these high civilian casualties.

99% of Gaza is still alive, though. Those are the normal people.

[–] Keeponstalin 1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Israel is responsible for the Settler Colonialism, the Apartheid violence, and this genocide.

Peace Process and Solution

Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution

Hamas proposed a full prisoner swap as early as Oct 8th, and agreed to the US proposed UN Permanent Ceasefire Resolution. Additionally, Hamas has already agreed to no longer govern the Gaza Strip, as long as Palestinians receive liberation and a unified government can take place.

Oslo was used as a land grab while continuing to deny Palestinians human rights

(Oslo Accord Sources: MEE, NYT, Haaretz, AJ).

How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution

‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe

One State Solution, Foreign Affairs

Human Shields

Hamas:

Intentionally utilizing the presence of civilians or other protected persons to render certain areas immune from military attack is prohibited under international law. Amnesty International was not able to establish whether or not the fighters’ presence in the camps was intended to shield themselves from military attacks. However, under international humanitarian law, even if one party uses “human shields”, or is otherwise unlawfully endangering civilians, this does not absolve the opposing party from complying with its obligations to distinguish between military objectives and civilians or civilian objects, to refrain from carrying out indiscriminate or disproportionate attacks, and to take all feasible precautions to spare civilians and civilian objects.

Israel:

Additionally, there is extensive independent verification of Israel using Palestinians as Human Shields:

Deliberate Attacks on Civilians

Israel deliberately targets civilian areas. From in general with the Dahiya Doctrine to multiple systems deployed in Gaza to do so:

Israel also targets Israeli Soldiers and Civilians to prevent them being leveraged as hostages, known as the Hannibal Directive. Which was also used on Oct 7th.

[–] JustZ -2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

And Hamas and their loyal supporters in Gaza use human Shields by the millions, versus like the eight times Israel has done it.

In Israel it's a crime and that people actually get arrested for it every now and then. In Gaza it's the way of life, and the way of death.

It is a deliberate strategy to get as many civilians killed on purpose so that they can trick gullible westerners like you into thinking that Hamas are the actual victims.

Enough is enough. There's not going to be another 100 years of rocket attacks and suicide bombings. Period.

And if Syria and Lebanon and the West Bank can't control the illegal terrorist attacks being launched from their lands, along Israel's borders, Israel has every right to step in and bring law to those unredeemed territories. It's sort of like the law of finders keepers.

[–] Keeponstalin 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Yeah all of that is completely proven false by the sources I provided. You're simply a lazy troll who cares nothing about human rights and instead repeatedly does apologia for genocide and ethnic cleansing

[–] JustZ 0 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Yeah, blah blah blah, 99% of the Gaza is still alive, though, after more than a year of "genocide and ethnic cleansing." 99%. Like what are you even talking about? 99% hasn't been starved, hasn't been blown up, hasn't been sniped, hasn't been used by IDF as human shields, or whatever other nonsense claims you make again and again.

So that kind of makes you sound like an alarmist fool with no grip on what's actually going on in Gaza. You have a mastery of the propaganda that you copy and paste in every thread, the same five links, that you offer as "proof" of circumstances that you clearly¹ don't understand.

  1. Really, it's obvious to anyone that actually knows about this stuff that your knowledge is superficial at best, that you're limited to regurgitating copy and pasted talking points, literally straight propaganda from state media Iran and Qatar, oh an fundraising solicitations from incredible NGOs, who have been helping Hamas maintain their fascist grip on power.
[–] Keeponstalin 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Israel's Genocide Against Palestinians in Gaza Revealed Through Evidence and Analysis

“Here in Deir al-Balah, it’s like an apocalypse. There is no room for you to pitch a tent; you have to set it up near the coast… You have to protect your children from insects, from the heat, and there is no clean water, no toilets, all while the bombing never stops. You feel like you are subhuman here.”

  • Mohammed, a 42-year-old father of three, speaking in June 2024 about his experience of displacement from Rafah to Deir al-Balah governorate

Israel/Occupied Palestinian Territory: ‘You Feel Like You Are Subhuman’: Israel’s Genocide Against Palestinians in Gaza

Israel's Genocide on Occupied Palestine

On 26 January 2024, the ICJ said that it was plausible that Israel had breached the Genocide Convention. As an emergency measure, it ordered Israel ensure that its army refrained from genocidal acts against Palestinians.

The ICJ reported, as part of its decisions in March and May, that the situation in Gaza had deteriorated and that Israel had failed to abide by its order in January.

So, when we look at the actions taken, the dropping of thousands and thousands of bombs in a couple of days, including phosphorus bombs, as we heard, on one of the most densely populated areas around the world, together with these proclamations of intent, this indeed constitutes genocidal killing, which is the first act, according to the convention, of genocide. And Israel, I must say, is also perpetrating act number two and three — that is, causing serious bodily or mental harm, and creating condition designed to bring about the destruction of the group by cutting off water, food, supply of energy, bombing hospitals, ordering the fast evictions of hospitals, which the World Health Organization has declared to be, quote, “a death sentence.” So, we’re seeing the combination of genocidal acts with special intent. This is indeed a textbook case of genocide.

More than 800 scholars of international law and genocide have signed a public statement arguing that the Israeli military may be committing genocidal acts against Palestinians in the Gaza Strip as the total siege and relentless airstrikes continue to inflict devastation on the occupied territory.

An independent United Nations expert warned Monday that "Israel's genocidal violence risks leaking out of Gaza and into the occupied Palestinian territory as a whole" as Western governments, corporations, and other institutions keep up their support for the Israeli military, which stands accused of grave war crimes in the Gaza Strip and West Bank.

Our documentation encompasses over 500 incitements of violence and genocidal incitement, appearing in the forms of social media posts, television interviews, and official statements from Israeli politicians, army personnel, journalists, and other influential personalities.

I, Lee Mordechai, a historian by profession and an Israeli citizen, bear witness in this document to the situation in Gaza as events are unfolding. The enormous amount of evidence I have seen, much of it referenced later in this document, has been enough for me to believe that Israel is committing genocide against the Palestinian population in Gaza. I explain why I chose to use the term below. Israel’s campaign is ostensibly its reaction to the Hamas massacre of Oct. 7, 2023, in which war crimes and crimes against humanity were committed within the context of the longstanding conflict between Israelis and Palestinians that can be dated back to 1917 or 1948 (or other dates). In all cases, historical grievances and atrocities do not justify additional atrocities in the present. Therefore, I consider Israel’s response to Hamas’ actions on Oct. 7 utterly disproportionate and criminal.

Others: AP News, Time, Reuters, Vox, CBC

Deliberate Attacks on Civilians

Israel deliberately targets civilian areas. From in general with the Dahiya Doctrine to multiple systems deployed in Gaza to do so:

Israel also targets Israeli Soldiers and Civilians to prevent them being leveraged as hostages, known as the Hannibal Directive. Which was also used on Oct 7th.

[–] JustZ -1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Yes it's very emotional reading. I try to read objectively though. It's a very complex set of circumstances.

You are very clear that you don't mind condemning millions more Palestinians, Syrians, and Lebanese from living and dying under of the failed leadership of far right, religious dictators. They are mentally shackled to an imaginary ideological war. Sucks that 1% of them couldn't break free.

Stop launching rockets. Stop sending suicide bombers. Stop with the paraglider mass shootings. Stop killing your own people for not being extreme enough or even hinting at holding an election. Stop letting Iranian money corrupt and commodify every public and private institution anywhere near Israel's borders and just live life. Please?

Nah, can't be done. Unfathomable. Inconievable.

[–] Keeponstalin 1 points 1 day ago

It's very obvious you didn't read a single thing. Especially since the first link was a video