i can't even guess as to why they went quiet. not one guess at all. we will never know.
edit: well they're not quiet now once they get called out
this post was submitted on 17 Nov 2024
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I have been seeing this online, leftist, superposition where people not voting Democrat, to protest the genocide, are not a significant enough portion of the vote, to have tanked the election for the DNC, and that enough of the 15 million who sat out clearly did so due to the genocide, to make them lose. I have seen it argued both ways from a number of the same people, in different threads, when the messaging behind either, works in their favor. No these people are not russian bots, they have been around lemmy, doing normal poster stuff, for a while now. They just want to not take any blame, and also claim their issue was far more universally important than it was.
"My vote for Jill Stein/My non vote for protest/etc. isn't what killed her chance, it was people being mad about other things the DNC didn't do well!" Then, on another post, seeing the same user name, "15 million people wouldn't have sat out had they stopped supporting Israel!"
All the third party votes combined and given only to swing states would still end with trump winning.
Wake the fuck up. The democrats lost because they fucking suck. stop blaming voters for your elitist out to brunch pathetic excuse of a political party that’s been gaslighting the public for four years about inflation telling us not to believe our own lying eyes and how great!!!! the economy is doing I mean look at these numbers!!! But these people are the type who going to work means going golfing to rub shoulders with the rest of the elite. They’re fucking clueless.
And they’re bleeding us dry with taxes while sending ALL of that money over to Israel and Ukraine. Meanwhile we have homeless starving people over here and they throw their hands up and say there’s no money. Fuck them and all their stupid ass brunch going laptop class never worked a real day in their life supporters too hung up on getting their pronouns right to actually come up with a platform that appeals to voters. “We’re not trump” is not a fucking platform. I hate trump but there is absolutely no question that these past four years I’ve been struggling far more economically under Biden than trump. Democrat party operatives too busy sniffing their own farts to read the fucking room.
Well, blaming the people for their votes wasn't the point I was making... but ok. I was pointing out this weird behavior I have been seeing. I would say "but go off", but you already have.
you had my upvote until your bit about pronouns. :(
learn and do better.
Im visibly queer myself and gender nonconforming. Catering to 1% of the population and turning it into a wedge issue (trans people in prison getting taxpayer funded gender reassignment surgery - a ridiculous concept that affects maybe 100 people in a country of 330 million, thanks ACLU for the gotcha) is a great way to get trump re-elected because 1% of the blue no matter who voters get their panties in a twist if people won’t play their pronoun police games. Cis people wearing pronoun placards and putting their pronouns in their email signature is about as helpful to the queer cause as painting a fucking rainbow in the street. Do nothing feel good -ism.
Pronouns and males in women’s sports are dumb wedge issues to lose an election over, just to cater to the precious feelings of 1% of the population. And now ALL of us queers are under threat.
You know what helps queer people? Focusing on the insane cost of living crisis. and that’s a winning platform that doesn’t just focus on an insignificant cultural decadence issue but rather affects most of the population. But instead biden/Harris gaslit the public about inflation and now they’re blaming everybody but themselves for the loss.
“Cis people wearing pronoun placards and putting their pronouns in their email signature” is helpful to me due to the number of (cisgender) people named Alex, Jordan, Morgan, Casey, Taylor, Avery Parker or Cameron lol.
Overall I agree with the gist of what you are saying, it’s just really fucked that you are lumping an incredible spread of wedge issues under “too hung up on getting their pronouns right.” You literally could have just said “wedge issues and messaging failures surrounding trans folk” instead of “pronouns” and I would never have commented.
Being kind!
I use pronouns as an example because it’s 1% of the population and well meaning cis liberals love to virtue signal over it and beat everyone else over the head with it in a smug sense of superiority. In reality, it doesn’t matter at all and shouldn’t even be part of a political platform. It’s bad strategy and stupid, catering to the special feelings of a tiny group of people over the realistic needs of the larger group.
When it comes to people with gender neutral names, if you’re not sure just ask. Or guess, and if you guessed wrong, apologize. Only the power tripping type are gonna get hung up on it. People misgender me all the time. I don’t care. It’s not out of malice.
Really disturbing how you are framing the acceptance of trans people, a matter of life and death, as “special feelings”?
The Republican platform is to eradicate transgender people. I absolutely will not tolerate criticism of countermessaging that does the bare minimum of calling them the gender they are. Do better.
Sorry but you must be young. I lived through the 90s as a visibly queer person. They never accepted us. They never will.
We need to move the spotlight off of us and onto widely supported policies (pro labor, higher minimum wage, universal healthcare, finance regulation) instead of the dumbest fucking wedge issues of all time.
The ~decade or so under (mostly) Obama was a fucking blip in history. We’ve always been hated. That’s not going to change. Maybe because I was violently assaulted most of my childhood for being queer I’m a little more attuned to the fact that it was fake acceptance all along.
But go ahead and focus on people’s precious feelings for being misgendered and continue to lose elections instead of aiming for broad appeal. Broad appeal ≠ killing queers so don’t fucking put words in my mouth. Just another out to brunch liberal…
Don’t forget the dems were against gay marriage before they were for it (as recently as 2012!), depending on the political winds. They were for don’t ask don’t tell until they were against it. They’re not allies and they never had our best interests at heart. They’re manipulative power hungry assholes and nothing more. The fact that they have queers so bent out of shape over the election results just proves my point. They’re manipulating you. They will gladly throw you off a cliff if republicans campaign for throwing you into a volcano and then they will brag about how they’re the lesser evil and you should vote blue no matter who.
You act like I disagree with you or am a card carrying Democrat lol (I’m not and I agree with almost all of this). I revile the concept of vote blue no matter who. I just don’t think it’s fair for you to insert and enforce your experience with gender onto everyone else. As you say yourself:
Yet many people do care. For many, the misgendering is enextricably entangled with violence, loss of family, loss of medicine. Who are you to blame these people for their “emotional” experiences with violence and loss?
Sounds like you are in a unique and privelaged position here. You shouldn’t speak for others where it is out of malice. Just because you have the privilege to not care right now doesn’t make it okay to use other people’s experience as a downplay.
Anyway I will end this conversation as it’s clearly not going anywhere. Just be respectful to queer people who share identities and experiences with you eh? It’s not that hard. (And to reiterate one more time since that seems to be your railroaded train of thought, I have no defense of the Democratic Party.)
The moment the democrats take a step back on this, the republicans will take two steps forward. If we don't fight them here they will keep coming. Give an inch and they'll take a mile.
I agree that this shouldn't be front and center to the campaign. It wasn't. All they did was (somewhat) stand their ground when the republicans attacked them on it. Ceding ground would be selling out members of their own base to appease a small percentage of people who are so obsessed with us that they'll vote to hurt us regardless of anything else on the ballot, and those people are going to vote republican regardless. The number of trans people may be small, but if we get sold out it tells every other minority that the democrats will sell them out too whenever it becomes politically convenient.
Yes, economic issues should be what democrats focus on, and yes that's something that benefits queer people along with everyone else, but ceding ground to appease bigots is a terrible strategy.
The democrats allowed the ACLU to get a gotcha this election cycle over trans prisoners getting taxpayer funded sex reassignment surgeries. How many trans people are in prison, let alone going through with an invasive surgery while in prison? 10? 100? 1000? More than that? Unlikely. In a country of 330 million. Harris should of just deflected the answer instead of giving a sound bite and soothing the precious feelings of the out to brunch ACLU whom long ago gave up on their mission of protecting free speech. (I used to donate to them, around the election of trump or even before they started taking anti free speech positions that were socially progressive but against the concept of free speech)
I don’t disagree with you - we should fight for trans rights always because when they start chipping away at human rights they aren’t gonna stop with just trans people.
But making niche social issues a campaign focus is a losing strategy and playing by the Republican playbook. I actually wonder if the ACLU gotcha was a Republican operation or a really dumb progressive not thinking things through.
a) yeah people are saying this.
b) no one is saying this except people who are so misinformed that they would deny a) anyway. you’re attributing the words of two separate groups of people to everyone in that group.
edit: sorry for the false assertion, corrected
@kameecoding English6•
My favorite lemmy bubble is the smug woke ( idiot leftists, who think they are smart but aren’t) who think Kamala lost because she didn’t take a stance on Gaza and people abstained in protest and not because of sexism and racism.
and to this is the direct reply
@SeattleRain English2•
That is why she lost to though. 15 million blank ballots don’t lie.
There are more people in that thread saying this in various different ways, and this is just the most recent one in my post history.
yikes ok thanks for the correction. didn’t know people were that poorly informed.
i’ll see what i can do to correct my comment in an edit, it’s obvious the user you quoted is way off base in saying the B portion of my comment. not sure if they would also say the A portion though.
edit: for anyone curious, the “15 million” that user refers to is a purported number of democrats that didn’t show up to vote. and so has nothing to do with “blank ballots.” plus that number isn’t even real apparently and it’s less, see that fact check link for more.
It's cool, I see this a lot lately. Yeah, I am not siding with commenter one, this example was just the first in my history. No offense to you, I don't really think this conversation is worth more work than that. I have a number of examples hidden in there though, also consider I didn't bother commenting most of the times I saw this type of thing.
Personally, while I listen to people, and can't but accept bigotry as part of the issue, it isn't THE issue. However, people like Seattle here, seem to be in a bubble. My personal friends care about this, I do, it is common in most of the online spaces I am in, but when I get out into an unfiltered space, it becomes clear gaza isn't a consideration, or is so far down the list, it might as well not be.
Agree. I heard Hasanabi frame it as, the US is certainly sexist and racist, yes, but those hurdles could have been overcome (as with Obama) by employing messaging that is appealing to the majority public who feel alienated from their labor and neighbors. And that did not happen, not nearly enough or comparably to Obama, and so racism and sexism won out.
Yes, much of the labor here voted trump due to blindly reaching out to someone they thought was a political outsider. Now they are furious that their compensation is going to be cut, and their union (this is largely manufacturing) can't do anything, because their company can materially prove major losses in profit margins. Even the top brass, in a number of these companies, are having their contracts re-negotiated to reduce their compensation. Locally, they voted more progressive than in decades, because they saw those people as outsiders too. This goes right along with what AOC, and Bernie, are saying about people who voted for both them and trump.
Much of the people, who voted biden, and then sat this out, are older white men. People seem to think just mentioning this means you are saying it was all hate due to woman of color. However, I also see the concerns of this demographic are way different than those who would be seriously concerned about palestine. Here people are saying things akin to "the destruction of our palestine (the train wreck that poisoned palestine OH) was just a news cycle, the one on the other side of the world has been on the news for months."
Have you seen a clip of JD Vance talking about the east Palestine train wreck? It’s on muskrats shitter somewhere. He legit sounds like Bernie sanders when he talks about it.
The parties are doing a really weird flip. Republicans are cosplaying being pro labor and are starting to say things that are going towards leftism, at least in the particular clip I’m referring to. He talks about the need for strong regulations against corporate America…
Yes, I have. When he is speaking locally he is in hillbilly elegy mode. When he is speaking as the VP he is 100% MAGA nazi rhetoric.
Don’t get me wrong I don’t trust him for a second. But it’s interesting to watch the republicans cosplay as pro labor.
Dumb smug liberals too addicted to identity politics as an excuse for everything under the sun completely ignoring TWO WARS and RECORD INFLATION that the biden administration gaslights the public over.
I... understand that. The first commenter in the post I copypasta'd wasn't someone I was agreeing with, nor was it me. I was just showing my most recent example of the weird behavior I have been seeing, that is all.
Sorry. Your comments formatting is confusing, my bad.
Kamala lost more because of the economy than because of Gaza. But if people want to blame protest voters, and they really, really do, then I'm happy to take advantage of that narrative because that claim only helps us by suggesting that we weild more influence than we do and are more important to win over than we are. I'm happy to point out that they're wrong because I'm an honest person, but if they really want to push a narrative about how important and influential my faction is, then I mean, I'll take it. "Never interrupt your enemy when they're making a mistake." Plus pointing out the fact that they're only helping us is probably more likely to get them to stop than trying to appeal to the facts.
Personal opinion, it is both. Harris ran a shite campaign. Also people refused to exercise their ability to produce damage mitigation. Voting the lesser evil in the presidential election, while voting, and working, to make change locally, from the ground up, is the way to affect change in this stupid system. Don't believe me? Really look at how the GOP got a death grip on the government, despite being a minority. Yes it took 50 years, but it worked, and they were working at the disadvantage.
Also, I spilled a glass of red wine on my desk, keyboard, micro pc, and several devices, when I moved my arm to respond to this. So fuck you!
It's both. Many, many issues have 15 people who can explain what they don't like and try to do something about it, and then 15 million people who don't like the same thing but can't explain it, won't try, only vote when they feel like it, and will never see any scolding you try to do.