909
I'd like to think they're all just Russian trolls but increasingly, I think some people are just selfish or dumb.
(lemmy.world)
this post was submitted on 24 Oct 2024
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No. What meaning is there in talking about votes in an election with no guarantee of fairness?
I just held an election where I got 100% of the votes (just one vote, me). If you don't like it, it's your fault for not showing up to it.
This is an impressively dumb argument.
"We shouldn't vote because I can imagine a scenario in which they don't count the votes!"
"Has that happened?"
"Well, no, but it could!"
I doubt you're old enough to have seen Billy Maddison but you remind me of the bus driver:
Bus Driver : That Veronica Vaughn is one piece of ass, I know from experience dude. If you know what I mean.
Billy Madison : No, you don't.
Bus Driver : Well, not me personally but a guy I know. Him and her got it on. Wooo-eee!
Billy Madison : No, they didn't.
Bus Driver : No, but you can imagine what it'd be like!
Cool.
Do you apply that standard consistently? If Kim Jong Un announces his party got 100% of the vote, are you going to say that's on his opponents for not showing up?
Also, I never said "we shouldn't vote." What I said is that the process isn't legitimate. As I mentioned, there were plenty of shenanigans that the democratic establishment used to ensure that Sanders wouldn't get the nomination, so this isn't just a hypothetical about what I can imagine or what might happen.
"Do you apply this logic cosistently?"
Proceeds to give a wholly incompatible and incosistent example of North Korea.
How anyone could not take you seriously is beyond me.
What makes it incompatible? You're dismissing questions of legitimacy and looking only at the results. The results of the 2016 democratic primaries were that Hillary won, and you say regardless of how legitimate or illegitimate the process may be, that happened because not enough Bernie supporters showed up. How is that different from looking at the North Korean elections and putting aside any questions of legitimacy or fairness and just looking at the results and saying the same thing? It's the exact same logic.
You don't see the difference between your imaginary DNC scenario and North Korea's elections which have been decried as sham elections?
When international observers start showing that the votes in the Democratic primaries don't count, then you'd have a case.
Until then, this is the stupidest argument I've read or hears in weeks and not worth anymore of my time.
If you're arguing in good faith, God help us all. I much prefer to think you're trolling as it breaks my heart to think someone this dumb has the same number of votes that I do. (Well, fewer as you're too dumb to vote in primaries but still...)
Oh, so it does matter whether or not elections are legitimate? So then why do you automatically dismiss all questions of legitimacy regarding the Democratic primaries?
Again, did not say that one shouldn't vote in primaries, only that the primaries are not a sufficient answer to how to enact left-wing polices.
Like I said, this isn't worth my time.
Reread what's been written, it has the answers.
Maybe it'll make sense when you grow up?
And I've answered all your points.
I'm in my 30's and the older I get the further left I go, so don't hold your breath on that.
Oooof, you're in your 30s and these are the sorts of arguments you're making? I mean, when I was in grade school, maybe...
Right now though, your argument is like saying it's dangerous to go outside because no one can prove that Michael Meyers isn't out there ready to chop you to bits. Sure, it's possible a psychopath is out there lurking but it's very unlikely. Similarly, sure, it's possible the DNC could rig the primaries and not count the votes but it's comically unlikely. Since the primary system began, the candidate with the most votes has won the nomination. Should that not happen, then there'll be outrage and chaos but until then, it seems kind of insane to not actually try to make things better because you can pretend a scenario in which your vote doesn't matter.
Like I keep saying - time doesn't ipso facto make you wise. Wisdom is something you earn with hard work and dedication to intellectual honesty. It does not simply come with time and you are yet another great example of this.
Pretending like elections in North Korea and the USA are comparable is either very ignorant or wholly disingenuous.
I never pretended that. My point is that if you categorically dismiss questions of legitimacy in an election, then it leads to absurd conclusions.