this post was submitted on 17 Oct 2024
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Gotta get creative with your layoffs when you already did massive layoffs but still need to please wall street.

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[–] TOModera 83 points 2 months ago (3 children)

I don't think Meta thought this through, unless the staff already know you can be fired for small things like this. Sure, they stretched what you are supposed to spend money on, broke the rules, fine. Fuck around, find out, not something i do professionally. But it's $25. You're a 1.5$ trillion company. It comes off as petty.

If I was still working at Meta, I'd be job hunting. And maybe that's what they want. Maybe they need to downsize some more.

But eventually Meta will have the minimum amount of staff and need to grow again or necessary people will leave, and when they try to hire people they may find this article and demand more money to make up for the pettiness or they won't apply, because no one likes to be under a microscope.

[–] [email protected] 43 points 2 months ago (2 children)

And maybe that’s what they want

It's absolutely what they want. I think they're trying to cull their workforce, and cracking down on random policies in this way is intended to get people to leave w/o having to pay out severance packages.

they may find this article and demand more money

I highly doubt that. People will continue to apply to Meta because it's a prestigious job and pays remarkably well. Unfortunately, Meta will get away with this, and it's honestly disgusting to me.

[–] TOModera 18 points 2 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

100% agree on your first point.

I would caution your second point. A few years ago, news articles pointed out Meta had to pay people more compared to other similar companies due to people not wanting to work there. Sadly Google search isn't showing me those older articles.

A few websites are saying Meta's ~~average~~ median pay is 379k (Zuckerberg takes a $1 so he isn't driving that number) vs Google at $315k vs Microsoft $193k vs Nvidia 267k. That's a lot of difference. So running a company like a pedant has a real dollar difference, especially for workers who can demand it. Meta lost a lot of money on the Metaverse and they are spending to catch up AI, meaning they already have to be competitive for employees compared to other companies. Add in the perks are a trap to get fired, and your costs just keep going up. Perks are typically offered in lieu of higher costs and in this case incentive people to work longer in an office. Now they leave for food or go home and you have lost those benefits.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Meta had to pay people more compared to other similar companies due to people not wanting to work there

It's probably more because they were offered a position at some other prestigious firm, like Google or Netflix. Meta doesn't need to compete with you local mom-and-pop software company, they're competing with other large tech firms, so if they want "the best," they need to pay up for it.

Microsoft $193k

I think there's a lot more variety of roles in some of those companies though. Microsoft has a big hardware division (XBox, Surface, mouse/keyboard, etc), which means a lot of lower-paid support staff, logistics, etc. Meta is relatively new to that (mostly just their VR), so they probably have a lot fewer lower-paid roles. Microsoft also has a lot of campuses in lower COL areas, whereas my understanding is that Meta is almost entirely in the SF Bay area, with relatively few satellites (i.e. much higher average COL).

So just looking at average salaries doesn't tell the whole story, we'd need to look at equivalent roles. You could absolutely be right here, I'm just pointing out the metrics don't necessarily support the conclusions.

[–] TOModera 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Totally fair points. Probably next to impossible. Wish I could find those articles, but oh well. I just don't see this being good for future hiring at Meta at the end of the day.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago

I hope you're right, because I detest Meta and refuse to use anything they touch.

[–] Snapz 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Not average salary, median salary. Big difference, be careful with words, friend.

[–] TOModera 1 points 1 month ago

Good catch, thanks, updated

[–] nutt_goblin 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Definitely seems like they want the layoff from my position in the industry.

The tech megagiants are massively reallocating their budgets from "paying people for new product development" to datacenter build-outs, under the belief that AI will fundamentally restructure all knowledge work into property you can own and extract rent from.

Unfortunately the industry is completely non union and a good chunk of employees are on H1B or TN visas where they will get deported if they get fired. That really puts a damper on wanting to rock the boat.

Expect things to get less stable and shittier over time as this trend continues.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Yup, and when I worked w/ a team @ Facebook on a project, there were a lot of immigrants there. That really sucks, but the solution here should be to improve our immigration system so workers can more easily switch companies instead of getting deported and having to reapply.

[–] nutt_goblin 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

100% agreed. The fact that it's possible to deport someone who has lived in America for decades just for getting laid off is absurdly cruel.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

Yup. If you're here legally, it should be really easy to stay here (i.e. you'd have to try to get deported).

[–] scarabic 16 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I’m just trying to understand how UberEats is a good way to feed an office. Are we talking about 3 people in a WeWork space somewhere? I can’t imagine 250 UberEats orders all arriving somewhere at once and getting to the right people. Or even 25.

[–] TOModera 19 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Oh, it's terrible. The entire policy is Bananas. And you can't pool funds? So if it is 3 people, $75 worth of pizza will feed them for a long time. But they got fired for pooling them.

How much time were the Accountants spending verifying this? Or did workers just receive vouchers? If a handful of people were abusing it, how did they notice? No refunds on vouchers, so you'd assume an amount of late nights and then refill as needed. It was already budgeted, so it's a sunk cost.

Also in some places I've worked, $25 after the delivery costs isn't that much food either. I'd be ignoring that perk forever if I still worked there, too much red tape.

[–] scarabic 12 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Yeah the pooling funds part confuses me. What is the damn issue?

Well, they also just straight up laid off 9,000 people this week so they are clearly in a mood to get rid of people. And I suppose they don’t mind firing people for small infractions because it accomplishes two things for them:

  1. no severance required
  2. sets an example and scares people into obedience

Free food is after all a perk that most people don’t get at work. And it’s just the tip of the iceberg of perks that Meta employees get. I know for a fact that executives get sick and tired of employees being spoiled by all this and they probably took personal enjoyment in these terminations.

[–] TOModera 9 points 2 months ago

I agree, this stinks of petty gotcha, which is why i dont think its a good idea, as remaining employees with devalue those perks and stop working for Meta as a result.

And yes, these are perks above all else, but remember Meta created these incentives to keep people in the office longer without having to pay them (a lot) more. A few people abusing it in order to ensure the majority of workers stay nights and weekends (at small satellite offices) is a small price. Now? "Hey, worker X, staying late tonight?" "No, going home to eat, don't want to make a mistake on ordering Uber Eats and get fired" means you don't get 5-40 hours per week extra time from that worker X. And you already paid for the vouchers, so you don't save money. Also other workers won't stay because more people leave.

Granted we are talking Mark Z here, so eating food is probably too alien for him to understand.