this post was submitted on 14 Oct 2024
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There's a lot you're saying that I agree with, but it's undeniable that sending weapons to Isreal is not solving this problem it's directly causing the problem. Biden is incredibly ineffective at solving this and is not holding any sort of red line for real. He needs to hold Isreal accountable for their actions. We have sent billions and billions of dollars of weapons to Isreal, and we likely aren't stopping anytime soon even if Kamala is elected. We need to hold their feet to the fire and show them this is unacceptable.
It doesn't matter. The Israeli/Palestinian conflict isn't even in the top 10 major threats to our country.
You can be unhappy about it, but this election is literally deciding whether the US will be a fascist, theocracic dictatorship.
I agree with your stance, but it's a hell of a hard pill to swallow when both action and inaction directly support the continued financing of a genocide.
Vote for the lesser evil now, but make up for it by holding them to account to the fullest of your ability once they're in.
No politician is going to please everyone. All we can do is keep choosing the less bad option until there's finally a good option.
Ranked choice voting would be nice, but for that to ever be an option we need the left to overpower the right.
That's absolutely not the case. For the Democrats to pull back towards the left, their viability as a choice for left-leaning voters needs to be threatened. It's too late for this election, so vote Dem, but in the medium term it means taking action to support a better third party that actually champions progressive and egalitarian governance and peaceful foreign policy, and also challenging the Democrats with protests and campaigns.
Waiting did not get women the vote. Waiting did not achieve the victories of the Civil Rights movement. Waiting will not stop US proxy genocide in the Middle East.
Not enough people will ever vote 3rd party to threaten the democrats. It's a nice thought, but the amount of people who actually care enough to make the switch is still going to be extremely low even with massive campaigning.
Also, times are different; the government and population is vastly different than it was in the 20th century. And the threat of a 3rd party wasn't what made the change anyways.
Welcome to being a functioning adult. Life sucks, and it sucks worse when you throw temper tantrums instead of pursuing harm reduction when you can.
That's fair. I have very little patience for people who need to be handheld through making sane, rational decisions. That's a me problem. It would be more effective if I were more empathetic.
your high horse is a mule
"Donkey" was right there
falling on my sword right now
Oooo someone got the big mad
You forgot to change alts.
There are extremists on both sides that would ve killing civilians with sticks and stones if they had no other means. Parties like Iran are sending one sided weapons to help them win. The US sending weapons to the other is not the only factor 'causing' this problem.
You can't both sides a genocide, especially when one side clearly started it by settling the other one's territory, taking their land, and displacing hundreds of thousands of people, without their input. Hamas only popped up decades into Israel taking more and more territory, after many Palestine tried many other ways to fight back but failed.
That's a very simplistic take on the history
It's not simplistic, it's factual. It's more complicated than some people think, but way more simple than Zionists make it look, who try to I jegt artificial nuance to make people look away. And it's worked up until the internet has made it easier to see the genocide than ever before. I'd recommend looking into the British Mandate of Palestine, how a state was promised to Palestinians than reneged by the West to keep the Middle East in chaos, Herzl and the history of Jewish immigration to Israel (and alternative places they were considering like Africa), and the Nakba. Someone around here has a lot of good links, too. I'd also recommend looking into the US, Canadian, and Australian history to find out what settler colonialism is and see how it applies to Palestine.
What would you say to the zionist jews that were already living in Palestine? Or to those in neighbouring states of the Ottoman empire that moved within those borders to find a place with less oppression? Did they 'colonize' their own country?
What would you say to someone that survived a pogrom in Russia and migrated the remains of their family to a collectivist farm in an empty piece of desert, merely as survival because they had nowhere else to go?
There's a lot of nuance to be found if you are willing to look a little deeper into it
They weren't Zionist just because they were Jewish people. They integrated into Palestinian society, they did not ethnically cleanse the Territory like the early Zionists.
There were jews already living there that wanted their muslim and christian neighbours replaced with jews, and there were jewish immigrants that were happy to build a kibbutz out in the desert and trade with their Arab neighbours.
What of the jews that were ethnically cleansed out of their Arab and North African countries? Where should they have moved?
Israel grew out of an existing jewish presence, and the first waves of immigrants came from Russia and Yemen, while under Ottoman control. Whoever told you it's a 'western colony' was lying to you
Most arrived with nothing and worked long hours in collectivist communes
You can find some nice sourced examples in here
And again: where do you suggest they should have moved?
There were a lot of different kibbutz types and many hired Arab workers. Some of the attacked kibbutzes last year even still had Arab workers from Gaza (not since though).
Here's an interesting article (paywalled though) on the subject
Well most of the jews that were living there in the 1880's will probably be dead by now, so it was mostly a hypothetical question of you travelling back in time and telling someone who was born in Palestine, from parents who were born in Palestine, that they were foreign settlers and had to leave
Did Hamas put down their weapons after Oslo?
Did Israel pull settlers out of Hebron?