this post was submitted on 02 Oct 2024
8 points (72.2% liked)

News

23768 readers
4943 users here now

Welcome to the News community!

Rules:

1. Be civil


Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.


2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.


Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.


3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.


Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.


4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.


Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.


5. Only recent news is allowed.


Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.


6. All posts must be news articles.


No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.


7. No duplicate posts.


If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.


8. Misinformation is prohibited.


Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.


9. No link shorteners.


The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.


10. Don't copy entire article in your post body


For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] steventhedev 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Small strikes against any IRGC personnel stationed outside Iran - they're fair game and on the table. We're already seeing this with the strikes on Damascus and throughout Lebanon.

Also - based on the saber rattling and talking heads, it sounds like there are likely to be three potential targets: the dams, which would cause massive domestic economic damage to Iran; the oil facilities, which would cause massive economic damage to the Iranian regime; finally, known nuclear sites, which are in line with Israeli rhetoric about preventing Iranian nuclear ambitions.

I think cooler heads will prevail and the dams won't be targeted, and without a regional coalition committed to a ground invasion with a goal of regime change, attacking the nuclear facilities won't have the strategic impact that's desired. Which leaves the oil refineries - there's a natural bottleneck for Iranian oil production/export so there's a short list of physical areas that need to be attacked for it to be effective.

Thinking on it further, IRGC headquarters should also be on the table. I don't think it's likely, but if it succeeds (and it's likely to succeed - especially with direct US support) then it's a huge win. But even if it does succeed I don't see it leading to real regime change in Iran, so without that strategic impact it's far less likely.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Also - based on the saber rattling and talking heads, it sounds like there are likely to be three potential targets: the dams, which would cause massive domestic economic damage to Iran;

I don't think that a dam will be targeted, at least if it's got a full reservoir behind it. That got banned in the Geneva Conventions, if I recall.

checks

Yeah, "Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and Relating to the Protection of Victims of Non-International Armed Conflicts (Protocol II)"

https://www.ohchr.org/en/instruments-mechanisms/instruments/protocol-additional-geneva-conventions-12-august-1949-and-0

Article 15 - Protection of works and installations containing dangerous forces

Works or installations containing dangerous forces, namely dams, dykes and nuclear electrical generating stations, shall not be made the object of attack, even where these objects are military objectives, if such attack may cause the release of dangerous forces and consequent severe losses among the civilian population.

And Israel's a party to that treaty:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocol_II

Russia's also a party to that treaty and blew up the Kakhovka Dam in Ukraine recently, so it's not as if it's never been violated, but I don't expect that Israel would.

the oil facilities, which would cause massive economic damage to the Iranian regime

There was some US senator advocating for the US bombing Iran's oil refineries the other day. Lindsey Graham, I believe. And I posted an article talking about potential oil disruption out of Iran, though that might have been crude oil extraction rather than refinement.

attacking the nuclear facilities won’t have the strategic impact that’s desired.

Wouldn't be the first time, though:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Opera

Operation Opera (Hebrew: מִבְצָע אוֹפֵּרָה),[1] also known as Operation Babylon,[2] was a surprise airstrike conducted by the Israeli Air Force on 7 June 1981, which destroyed an unfinished Iraqi nuclear reactor located 17 kilometres (11 miles) southeast of Baghdad, Iraq.[3][4][5] The Israeli operation came a year after the Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force had caused minor damage to the same nuclear facility in Operation Scorch Sword, with the damage having been subsequently repaired by French technicians. Operation Opera, and related Israeli government statements following it, established the Begin Doctrine, which explicitly stated the strike was not an anomaly, but instead "a precedent for every future government in Israel". Israel's counter-proliferation preventive strike added another dimension to its existing policy of deliberate ambiguity, as it related to the nuclear weapons capability of other states in the region.[6]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begin_Doctrine

The Begin doctrine is the common term for the Israeli government's preventive strike, counter-proliferation policy regarding their potential enemies' capability to possess weapons of mass destruction (WMD), particularly nuclear weapons.

The roots of this doctrine can be tracked at least to Operation Damocles at the beginning of 1960s. Secret and diplomatic operations against the Iraqi nuclear program were started by the Yitzhak Rabin government in the mid-1970s.

The doctrine itself was enunciated by Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin in June 1981, following Israel's attack on Iraq's nuclear reactor Osirak in Operation Opera. The doctrine remains a feature of Israeli security planning.[1] The initial government statement on the incident stated: "On no account shall we permit an enemy to develop weapons of mass destruction against the people of Israel. We shall defend the citizens of Israel in good time and with all the means at our disposal."[2]

On June 15, in a television interview on Face the Nation, Begin reiterated this doctrinal point: "This attack will be a precedent for every future government in Israel. ... Every future Israeli prime minister will act, in similar circumstances, in the same way."[3]

The doctrine also has been used since 2009, under Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, with regard to Iran and its nuclear capability. During this time the Iranian nuclear issue openly turned into Israel's number one security issue.

And there are a lot of countries, not just Israel, unhappy about Iran's nuclear weapons program. So I imagine that it wouldn't be a terribly controversial target, and wouldn't have much by way of direct negative effects on other parties.

EDIT: Yeah, it was Graham on the oil refineries:

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/biden-us-prepared-israel-defend-iranian-attack/story?id=114393069

One of the first reactions from Capitol Hill came from South Republican GOP Sen. Lindsey Graham, who called Iran's missile attack on Israel a "breaking point" and called for a response.

"I would urge the Biden Administration to coordinate an overwhelming response with Israel, starting with Iran's ability to refine oil," Graham said in a statement. He called for oil refineries to be "hit and hit hard."

EDIT2: Biden said that his administration wouldn't support a strike on Iran's nuclear sites:

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/biden-says-he-does-not-support-attack-irans-nuclear-sites-2024-10-02/

Asked whether the U.S. would back any Israeli strike on Iran's nuclear sites, Biden told reporters: "The answer is no."

Biden said more sanctions would be imposed on Iran and that he would speak soon with Netanyahu.

"Obviously, Iran is way off course," he said.

EDIT3:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/a-nervous-iran-wanted-to-restore-old-regional-order-but-israel-is-on-the-offensive/

Unnamed Israeli officials have told local media that the country could respond to the ballistic missile attack by striking strategic infrastructure, such as gas or oil rigs, or by directly targeting Iran’s nuclear sites.

Targeted assassinations and attacks on Iran’s air defense systems are also possible responses, Axios reported.

But an Israeli official told The Times of Israel that the attack would be designed to cause “significant financial damage” to Iran. That seems to indicate that Israel would target Iran’s oil facilities, a key component of the country’s struggling economy. Oil revenues make up around 20 percent of GDP, and the economy’s fortune rises and falls with the oil exports.

EDIT4:

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/10/02/biden-iran-israel-influence-limits-00182172

Biden added that sanctions would be imposed on Iran. Aides said that the U.S. was extensively communicating with Israel about a response, which could include a military strike, the officials said. Among the possible options under consideration are strikes on Iran-backed militias or directly on Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps forces in Yemen or Syria, a second official said. U.S. aides communicated a preference for a strategic but limited retaliation.