News
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
view the rest of the comments
It certainly doesn't. But in the absence of evidence in either direction, I think it's most reasonable to not assume the worst of people.
The evidence that shes racist is the incredibly racist post she made.
Evidence which wasn't available to the participants of the conversation at the time. With only what we see in the article, there's no reason to believe that this post she made was racist.
The human world is based on purposefully creating and maintaining inequality to enable exploitation. This is empirically verifiable. It is therefore reasonable to assume that most humans do not act based on morality, but instead out of convenience and/or apathy.
Get back to me when there are no hungry children, then I will be ready to reassess the evidence.
You can believe what you want about human nature, but consider how well society would function if it was acceptable to make baseless accusations and act on them as if they were facts.
I do consider how well society functions, and I don't think it is successful.
And so you'll improve it by throwing around random accusations?
How is "the lady who made an extremely racist post online might be racist" a random accusation, exactly?
Bolded the baseless accusations. In the context of my initial comment in this thread, we didn't have access to this post, so no one actually knew if it was actually racist.
In the context of the original comment you made in this thread, we knew she had made the post. You even reference her talking about the post she made. That post is, in fact, racist. So the facts you're trying to point to are-
There's nothing baseless about either of those statements, so there's nothing baseless about stating she is, in fact, probably a racist. And your arguments about giving someone (who admitted they made the racist post) the "benefit of the doubt" are arguments for giving a person, who made a racist statement, the benefit of the doubt, about being racist.
Accusing others of making a baseless accusation against an innocent hold zero water when these facts are evident. I am pointing at the basis.
You understand that not everyone has the same context as you, right? It's fine to say "[she] made an extremely racist post online" if either
a) you've read the post and recognize that it is racist, or
b) someone else who has read the post has informed you that it is racist
It is not okay to make that claim if neither of the above hold. I'm assuming you've read it, so if you said she made a racist post, then that's acceptable. I've read it too at this point, so I can say the same. I do not want someone who knows nothing about the situation telling me that she made a racist post.
So now you're saying the reason you're indignant that someone might have said she was racist... was because they didn't begin by saying, "I, too, have seen the evidence that is referenced in the article we're all commenting on?"
No. I don't expect people to reveal everything they hold in their head that could be relevant to the discussion. That would be ridiculous. I do expect people to be wary of their biases and not make assumptions without adequate evidence.
Protist made a very reasonable response to the article given what they knew, and was clear that they didn't have enough information to make further judgement.
treadful's response was saying there also isn't enough evidence to conclude that she isn't racist. Many would read that as saying she's probably racist, so my response is intended to curb that bias.
I'm not accusing anyone of making baseless accusations. I am preemptively drawing attention to a common bias and asking people be aware of it and to avoid it.
The evidence that doesn't conclude her innocence, was her claiming things like being a member of the LGBTQ community. That doesn't prove innocence, especially in face of the evidence that Protist was saying they didn't have enough of, and one assumes that's either because they don't want to believe it, or because they chose not to actually read anything they were commenting on. Which, coincidentally, is information you didn't have because you also must not have read any of the supporting evidence at that point.
I wasn't referring to any of that. I was referring to you jumping on an entirely third party, Samvega, and attacking them of baseless accusations. Which is where I joined the conversation. So that might tell you where I came from, since you're so interested in context.
Samvega was not making a baseless accusation. In fact, you've reviewed the evidence and even admitted at this point that the lady is in fact probably racist.
Your only defense for all of this is, "I just don't want people to accuse random people of being racist." But you also recognize that hasn't happened here. So why are you arguing with me?
I know why I'm here. It's because I have gastroenteritis and nothing else to do.
I'm here with a toddler who just learned to walk and wants to hold my hand and do laps up and down the hallway for hours at a time. Cute af, but also mind numbingly boring.
You're stuck on the toilet I presume? Doesn't sound pleasant. Hope that gets better for you soon.
I thought Samvega disagreed with me when I said baseless accusations are bad, but they denied it and refused to elaborate, so I have no idea what that's all about. They have not made any themselves and I never accused them of such.
I don't know what you mean by "defense". I'm restating my main point.
Yes. It's often better to prevent a Bad Thing than to fix the consequences after Bad Thing has happened. I don't understand what you're disagreeing with.
Looking back on my two previous posts in this thread, I have not accused any individual of anything. Nor do I think I can improve a human world specifically designed to hurt humans all by myself. All I can do is refrain from hurting others - this is not an action which, by itself, changes the moral behaviour of the majority.
You, in fact, are the one throwing an accusation. You might be doing this, ironically, out of a desire to improve the world. Feel free to ask me towards the end of the lifespan whether I have noticed a difference due to your efforts.
https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/10659257
Is this not written in support of treadful's comment and in disagreement to my response? If not, then I have no idea what you were getting at.
Ah, yes, you do live mostly in a world that you simulate inside your head. You probably do this in order to ignore the fact that you are participating in a human world which is purposefully organised by humans in order to hurt most humans. Carry on, I'll leave you to it.
Well, I'm utterly confused by what you've been trying to say, so a clarification would be nice. But I understand if you don't want to continue the conversation.
There is evidence of her being a racist piece of shit though.
https://lemmy.ca/post/28915538/11651615
I've rephrased this comment more explicitly and concretely here. Feel free to read through the rest of that thread. I'd rather not repeat myself unless you have something new to add.
You're trying to save face in the same way this racist piece of shit is trying to save face: badly.
Your comment is a great example of the kind of biases I'm telling everyone to avoid. You misunderstood my initial message, then decided to cling on to that interpretation despite clarifications.
In any case, if you have feedback (e.g. what made the comment unclear, or how you interpreted it), I'd appreciate hearing about it so I can improve my writing. I'm not always aware of the hidden meanings non-autistic people pull out of words that weren't intended to have any.
I understood your message
Blah blah blah we don't know she's a racist because weh weh weh random bullshit about missing context.
Yes we do. She's a racist shitbag. The context is her being a racist shitbag writing a racist shitbag post on social media. The post has been displayed on various news sources and visible to anyone with a passing interest in the subject.
Her only remorse is that her casual racism turned out to be exposed to the public and the racist in chief is putting the spotlight on her racist shitbaggery.