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There is zero justification for a colonial apartheid ethnostate. Over seventy years of crimes against humanity are not worth defending.
you say there is no justification for a colonial apartheid ethnosate, but if that were true, why "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for our children"
the scary thing is people who would otherwise be against fascism for some strange reason turn off their 1488 detectors when talking about the Nation state of Israel, and will gladly embrace the concept of the ethnostate as a moral good.
I think it's a bit more complicated than that. It's a messed up country, but it's in an extremely messed up part of the world. All of their neighbors are nondemocratic ethnostates, and not even the apartheid kind, they've completely driven Jewish people out of their countries. I don't think standing by and letting Isreal get overrun would be beneficial for the world. I don't support their offensive military actions but that doesn't mean I want to see what happens when Hamas/Hezbollah takes over their country.
you know, leave it to the nazis to cut all that text down to just 14 words
There are plenty of places in the west where they would be safe, secure, and could flourish. Hell, many of them are citizens of these countries. My only concern would be letting such a large amount of fascists migrate when we're already combating the rise of fascism in the west.
That's pretty unrealistic in my opinion. Jewish people see Isreal as their ancestral homeland and they are already risking their lives to stay there. Millions of people would likely die rather than leave.
Two wrongs don't make a right. It was wrong to push out Palestinians, but now that Israeli people have been their for generations it would be wrong to push them out too. There arent many human settlements without a record of eviction and occupation. Even the native American tribes occupied, annexed, and eradicated each other for millenia before Europeans arrived. In my opinion, once you live somewhere for a few generations it's your land and you can't be kicked out- that just adds more suffering to the world.
Oh yes, they've been there for generations so they get to just genocide the people that lives there because it's their land. What the actual fuck?
That is not remotely what I said
That's how they've conducted themselves the entirety of the time they've been there, time for them to leave.
Israel is far from blameless, but their neighbors are far from innocent as well. They have all in the last half century done their best to kill Israeli civilians and take Israel off the map. The real solution here is to pressure Israel into negotiations and a peace settlement that involves a two state solution, which only the US government can do.
Bro. If they take land they're at war and invaders can be killed. I would suggest for kids sake they do not bring their children while hostily occupying a territory they have no legitimate claim to.
Moreover when the founding acts of your country are literal terrorist acts against civilians you lose the right to bitch when the same people slap back.
You're suggesting that if I take your family house I should get to keep it so long as I use force long enough to have some kids.
That's not quite what I said. I said several generations but that's the idea- there is no point in evicting your great-grandchildren due to an illegal and immoral action you undertook.
Suppose the year is 3000 and Israel still exists and the palestinean people still want the land back. The Israeli "occupiers" have now been there for 1000 years. Would you still support giving the land to the Palestinians?
I'm sure you'll be that generous while you and yours live in streets.
The Palestinians have been there iirc 7500yrs, Arab occupation predates organized religion as a whole. Also yes, dumb hypothetical though.
Let's also kick the colonisers out of the US, Canada, and Australia then.
You say that like I wouldn't agree dude, I'm native. Kick em out and me along with them if they so chose.
Well you are dead wrong about that, Jewish people lived in Judea (modern-day Israel) for about 2000 years before being evicted by the Romans in like 300 AD or so. The Arabs did not enter the region until AD 700. So, all told not only did the Jewish people live in Palestine long before the Arabs did, they have also been living their longer.
Does that mean that evicting the Palestinian people to found Isra was justified? I think no, and it has turned out to be a terrible mistake. But what is the difference really between the founding of Israel and your advocacy for evicting the Jewish people who live there now and returning it to the Palestineans?
Those are Arabs dumb dumb.
No, it was shitty colonizers acting like shitty colonizers.
Wait so you're saying the Jewish people of Judea/Kingdom of Israel were Arab? Genetically you kind of have a point (Palestinean people and Jewish are closely related) but culturally they are very different, at least since the founding of Judaism. But even if Jewish people were Arab, wouldn't that mean that they have equal claim to the land with the Palestinians?
No I'm saying the natives of the area predate religion as a whole being part of the world with the longest human occupation.
Similarly some of the familial land that was seized was legitimately held by Arab Muslims since before the creation of any temple let alone their subsequent fall.
Genetically an Arab Israeli and an Arab Jew who have both lived in the same area are within the margin of error for genetics, ie: they're the same and you're a scientific racist.
There are Arab Jewish Israelis, it's a thing. And yes they have equal claim to unoccupied land as any other citizen ( it should be noted stand aren't full citizens in Israel). No one has the right to force you from their home, no one. I bet you cry for landlords too.
I don't really know what you're saying with most of these points, I think you're calling me a racist for trying to interpret your statement about the original Jewish settlers being Arab.
I agree, nobody has a right to force you from your home. I strongly oppose Isreals settlements in the West Bank and their occupation of Gaza. I also oppose calls for their eviction from Israel. Can't you see it's the same thing? "But it was the Palistineans land first" you say- no, that is clearly untrue, Jewish people were living in Israel since the Iron Age, and it was the Arabs (and Romans) that evicted them.
And what's this about land being taken from Arab Muslims to build the Jewish temples? You do know that Jewish people were living in Israel since before Islam was a religion right?
I'm calling you a racist because your using eugenics talking points about genetics to explain your shitty point.
They aren't at all the same thing, you're taking like it's been thousands of years when there are literally people alive who had their land stolen around 1946. That is factually incorrect, the natives that predate Judaism are the stewards of the land, even trying to call biblical Israel a Jewish nation is factually incorrect Ave both the talmud and the Bible back that up.
I never said that, is English your first language because you seem to be fairly confused about straightforward comments.